Post Info TOPIC: The Wine of Babylon and the Sabbath
Dennis Wicklund

Date:
The Wine of Babylon and the Sabbath
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Hello,


I was wondering, if you could, in your spare time from a surely busy schedule, look up on your SOP cd, "the wine of Babylon."  I was hoping we might be able to discuss, in great detail, why it is that SDA's who once kept the Sabbath, might find it so easy to stop keeping it, and leave the faith altogether.  I believe that it is because this wine is being imbibed by our SDA ministers and those in positions of authority are fertilizing the ground with their drunk sentiments.  What exactly is "the wine of Babylon?"


Dennis



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Jeffery Fitzsimmons

Date:
Cinderella's Ball
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Dear Denis


Here is a quote from a letter, regarding Laodicean message (Rev3:14-22), which we are sometimes lazy and appears a little drunk and complacency within the church, the cure to the Laodicean message is a complete surrender of everything in your life that would hinder the Holy Spirit from ripping his fruit within you. 


Playing it this world's rules is that we are all imperfect sinful beings, when people want to tare pages off people just remember to our shame Christ could produce many volumes of my transgessions to our weight theirs. 


What is said is not for destruction but for building up and bring glory to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.


The Latter Rain is falling and riping a harvest of righteousness, ready for the Lord.



"I have found in the churches in SA, speak 'Nice things", things about character building (which is good) but its not overall balanced with the end time mission statements of the 7 Churches of Rev and the 3 Angels messages.  I have concluded a few things; the Harlot of Rev 17 was drunk with the world and the blood of the saints; we (the SDA Church) have become complacent, 'things are fine, no problems in Australia (the world at large), time for relaxing and prosperity' (have become rich and need of nothing), we have invited to the Harlot's party and had her choice wine to drink, we have invited then accepted the American Express dream world in with our, double incomes, mortgages, new car (2), and our home entertainment system that we have forgotten the sacrifices of Jesus, and the martyrs who have died along the way.  We have a dance with the devil and he has filled up out chalice again and again, except in this Cinderella nightmare the Bridegroom is about to come through the palace doors and take the servants home. Can’t you imagine shortly after, Cinderella swinging around on the floor, asking, "what is the time (Mr Wolf lol)", Lucifer answers, "It's party time!”  Cinderella responds "All I want is to know what the time it must be close to midnight and I must get changed for my ride home"  Lucifer response, (the liar he his) "Look you fine, perhaps a little shaken from the champagne, I’ll take you to the cleaners in the morning, I'll drive you home, I am a responsible driver... according my watch you've got one minute to midnight.  Forget about that driver he’s is probably going to be late anyway.  Lets celebrate the New Year" and so the story goes." 


 


I judge know one (who am I), it seems (sadly) that many in the SDA church do not know the Great Controversy story (the back-story of Christ and Satan, understanding the motive).  Has the Great Controversy become the Great Embarrassment for our Church? And the writings of EGW?


 


I will not say ever our church is Babylon, because her sins are piled up to heaven.  All I am saying it that it appears that our church has lost its identity.  So lets regroup pray ceaselessly that the Lord will heal and shake out of the church that which does not bring Him Glory.


 


Time is now shortly than people believe, "make every effort to enter through the narrow gate for wide is the path that leads to destruction", we can not fool God we are only fooling ourselves.


 


For the Glory of the Lord.


Amen


 


Jeffery Fitzsimmons


cityfitz@hotmail.com


 



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Dennis Wicklund

Date:
RE: The Wine of Babylon and the Sabbath
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Jeffrey,


 


Thank you for your contribution.  I was wanting to know specifically, what the wine of Babylon is.  Do you have any thoughts?


 


Dennis



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Jeffery Fitzsimmons

Date:
The Wine of Babylon
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Dear Dennis


To answer your question first of the Harlot's wine. 


What is the symbolism of the wine/bread of the Jesus.  Wine was presentation of the atoning blood that was spilt for our sins and the bread presented His body which was broken and received the punishment (death) which we deserve.


Like case with the Harlot: she assumed power to control who would be saved (going to heaven) and who would go to hell.  The clue for understanding her wine/sins is Revelation 17-18.  What was spiritual Babylon fallen, she "caged every unclean and hated bird!"  She controlled the mindset of Europe, by the threat of Purgatory where she sold "bodies and souls of men". The wine and blood of the Harlott is the institution that taught and feed the world her corrupt teachings, which she perverted the doctrinal truths of the bible and her false spirit which she attempted to deliver truth. Gradually workship of idols, mary, saints and apostles, confession through a preist.  and the whole pomp and ceremony deceived the world.  "No one come to the Father except through Me", Jesus said The Harlot has insisted that her authority came from Apostle Peter, where a linage was established as Bishop of Rome. 


One has to remember that the Harlot's sins are piled upto heaven, even though Roman Catholic has been relative quite, one must never forget that a leopard never changes her spots.  The harlot is ever willing to reunite the world under her rule to bring back her control and her so called purity.  One must not ever forget that 2 Thes 2:7-9



7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


In Christ Jesus


Regards


Jeffery Fitzsimmons


cityfitz@hotmail.com



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Dennis Wicklund

Date:
RE: The Wine of Babylon and the Sabbath
Permalink   


I find it quite troublesome that most SDA's believe that there is an antichrist, Rome, and that she is a major part of the spiritual, fallen Babylon spoken of in the prophetic books, and that her doctrines constitute her "wine."  Yet when we start enumerating her false doctrines, we tend to leave one out.  Hmmm, let us ponder this for a moment...


 


Dennis



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Jeffery Fitzsimmons

Date:
Quotation from GC
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Dear Dennis


I found an answering quote introduce to your topice:


CG Chapt 21, p 381/383  "In Revelation 14, the first angel is followed by a second, proclaiming, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication." [REV. 14:8.] The term Babylon is derived from Babel, and signifies confusion. It is employed in Scripture to designate the various forms of false or apostate religion. In Revelation 17, Babylon is represented as a woman, a figure which is used in the Bible as the symbol of a church, a virtuous woman representing a pure church, a vile woman an apostate church.  {GC88 380.3}
     In the Bible the sacred and enduring character of the relation that exists between Christ and his church is represented by the union of marriage. The Lord has joined his people to himself by a solemn covenant, he promising to be their God, and they pledging themselves to be his, and his alone. He declares, "I will betroth thee unto me forever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in loving-kindness, and in mercies." [HOS. 2:19.] And again, "I am married unto you." [JER. 3:14.] And Paul employs the same figure in the New Testament, when he says, "I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ." [2 COR. 11:2.]  {GC88 381.1}
     The unfaithfulness of the church to Christ in permitting her confidence and affection to be turned from him, and allowing the love of worldly things to occupy the soul, is likened to the violation of the marriage vow. The sin of Israel in departing from the Lord is presented under this figure; and the wonderful love of God which they thus despised is touchingly portrayed. "I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord God, and thou becamest mine." "And thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom. And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty; for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee. . . . But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown." "As a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so have ye dealt treacherously
                                                                            382



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Dennis Wicklund

Date:
RE: The Wine of Babylon and the Sabbath
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Thanks for the quote Jeffrey...


Back to my initial point though, I was wanting to draw a connection between accepting the wine of Babylon and the proclaiming of the Sabbath and the 3rd angel's message more fully.  If the man does not give up the wine, he may not go and rejoin his wife.  He must be clean from the influence of it for there to be a restored relationship between himself and the spouse.  The remnant must free itself of all false (Babylonian wine) doctrines before it can fully proclaim the Sabbath truth in connection with the 3rd angel's message, and thereby join Christ, the bridegroom.  For it is through the imbibing of this wine, or cup of abominations, that makes the full proclamation of this message hypocrisy for God's people.  Sober up Seventh-day Adventist.


Dennis



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Jeffery Fitzsimmons

Date:
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Dear Dennis


What I have sort of concluded about my walk with Jesus:



  • Everything we do is prayerful done for the glory of God.

  • Understanding "Christ our Righteousness" is a complete destruction of selfishness in our lives.  How can we proclaim the gospel truths and that Jesus paid the penalty for my sins and stands as a mediator between me and my transgressions of the law, without sounding legalistic and self-righteous but is proclaimed with the eternal love to quote James "the perfect law that gives freedom".

  • Understanding Grace of Jesus with my decifits in my obedience who whites out my sinful stain as if it did not occur.

  • Understanding the levels involved with the Great Controversy between Christ and Satan and my role within it (the spiritual and the phyical realms). 

  • Grounded firmly on the platform of the Bible 'Sola Scripture' as to give a reason for my faith.

If we are not grounded in the above and transformed by truth.  Then the wine of babylon is the least of our problems. 


Denis without being side tracked on 'other' issues. 


To quote James E. White (Past Present and Future p. 17) , When God created man, "...he was complete in physical form. But he was an inert being, without life or power of action. He was like the well-made steam engine, with all parts perfect, but without power to move until the steam is applied."  Unless we have been blessed with the Wine of God and truly eaten His body (the bread), being transformed into image being blessed with the latter rain. Then how after over 160 years since SDA made their mark on the world will our message have any bearing, we will be just another steam-engine without water.


My question for you Denis is that since the world is drunk on the Wine of Babylon, how can the world recongnise that she has fallen?  In other words has the 2nd Angel's Message being finished with?


 


Regards


Jeffery Fitzsimmons


Not that I am trying to fill up your topic with various quotations but have found another one that is supportive of what you are saying:


EGW SM BK2 fropm page 115



"I advise you not to regard your writings as precious truth. It would not be advisable for you to immortalize by putting in print that which has cost you so much anxiety. It is not the Lord's will that this matter should be brought before His people, for it will work to hinder the very message of truth they are to believe and practice in these last days of peril. . . .  {2SM 115.2}
     Theories will be continually agitated to divert the mind, to unsettle the faith. Those who have had the actual experience in the unfolding of the prophecies, have been made what they are today, Seventh-day Adventists, by these prophecies. They are to stand with their loins girt about with truth, and with the whole armor on. Those who have not had this experience are privileged to hold the message of truth with the same confidence. The light that God has been pleased to give His people will not weaken their
                                                                            116
confidence in the path in which He has led them in the past, but will strengthen them to hold fast the faith. We must hold the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end.  {2SM 115.3}
     "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus" (Rev. 14:12). Here we stand, under the third angel's message. "And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities" (Rev. 18:1-5).  {2SM 116.1}


         The Message of the Other Angel


     Thus the substance of the second angel's message is again given to the world by that other angel who lightens the earth with his glory. These messages all blend in one, to come before the people in the closing days of this earth's history. All the world will be tested, and all that have been in the darkness of error in regard to the Sabbath of the fourth commandment will understand the last message of mercy that is to be given to men.  {2SM 116.2}
     Our work is to proclaim the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. "Prepare to meet thy God" (Amos 4:12), is the warning to be given to the world. It is a warning to us individually. We are called upon to lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us. There is a work for you, my brother, to do, to yoke up with Christ. Make sure that your building is on the rock. Do not risk eternity on a probability. You may
                                                                            117
not live to participate in the perilous scenes on which we are now entering. The life of no one of us is assured for any given time. Should you not watch every moment? Should you not closely examine your own self, and inquire, What will eternity be to me?  {2SM 116.3}
     The great burden of every soul should be, Is my heart renewed? Is my soul transformed? Are my sins pardoned through faith in Christ? Have I been born again? Am I complying with the invitation, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Matt. 11:28)? . . . Do you count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus? And do you feel it your duty to believe every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God?--Manuscript 32, 1896.  {2SM 117.1}



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Dennis Wicklund

Date:
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Yes Jeffrey,


My initial point has not been addressed.  By reading your posts I find that you are attempting to corral the discussion by redirecting the attention "on what is REALLY important."  But I am interested in this because of its current agitation by the world church.  Jeffrey, and others, why can you not, by looking at pioneer writings or the SOP, give a clear description of what this wine is?  Should we not know this for our own and our family's sake?  Seems prudent to me.


 


Dennis



__________________
newbie

Date:
Permalink   

The "wine" of Babylon is all inclusive.  It is everything that is against God and his commands.  It is all the things that man in his traditions has done to counterfeit the true. 


More specifically it refers to the organizations (churches), and their beliefs and practices that are of the traditions of men and not truth.  At least, that's how I understand the "wine." 


(Wine in this context is referring to drunken and not sober.)



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Jeffery Fitzsimmons

Date:
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Dear Denis


Greetings!


I found your response quite humourous, "By reading your posts I find that you are attempting to corral the discussion by redirecting the attention "on what is REALLY important."  Considering the topics you have posted on this site.  


The opposite side to the Wine of Babylon is the (sobering) oil of joy burning within your heart; if you think of the 10 Virgins parable, what light are you reflecting to the world is one of overflowing positive joy of gospel and it's life changing evidence that radiates to your family, friends and community?


Within in many churches I have been involved with where there is genuine people who really love our Lord, are victims to the CB (Concern Brethern) movement within our church.  The CBs I have met and seen do have a simular spirit the Phariees of old, who pay their tithe and offerings, over critical of the church and never smile with the oil of joy.  These people believe that they a pulse on "the truth" or "the most important issues" they forget they are sheep and that we have a Shephard.   


Your quotation, Denis "I believe that it is because this wine is being imbibed by our SDA ministers and those in positions of authority are fertilizing the ground with their drunk sentiments."  It is probably evident by your quote that you have not happy with the direction of SDA is going and that you most likely believe that the Wine of the Harlot has been drunk by our Ministers.  While on some levels I might agree with you but overall I believe that the God is fully aware of the cause and the affect.


The Laodicean Message:


We were warned by Jesus, "...regarding Laodicean message (Rev3:14-22), which we are sometimes lazy and appears a little drunk and complacency within the church, the cure to the Laodicean message is a complete surrender of everything in your life that would hinder the Holy Spirit from ripping his fruit within you."


If Christ's return is conditional on us being faithful, right in doctrines, the choice of our wine/oil and our ability to "keep the Sabbath perfectly holy" then no one would be saved or left on the earth.  Some people pay their tithe regularly as a means of a life insurance policy but our debt to Jesus is so great not one righteous penny from our banks can pay it. As you know Denis we are purely saved by the blood of Jesus, nothing more nothing less.


In Christ


Jeffery


 



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Gordon

Date:
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Hello Jeffery,

My understanding is that faithfulness is the sole criteria for our reconciliation with God the Father. The words 'faith', 'faithful', 'believe' are all variations of the same Greek word 'pistos'. Salvation is based only upon faith, what we believe. Our beliefs produce our actions or works.

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 1 John 5:5

Here are some examples of its usage:

John 3:16 - that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life
Luke 18:8 - when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
Acts 8:37 - I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God
Hebrews 11:6 - without faith it is impossible to please him
Luke 7:50 - Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace
Revelation 13:10 - Here is the patience and the faith of the saints

The word 'doctrine' simply means instruction or teaching. If we teach for doctrine the commandments of men, then there is guile (deceit) in our mouths and we are warring against Christ 'who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth'. 1 Peter 2:22. God's people will be united on what they teach. They will not dishonour their Redeemer by teaching false doctrines, the wine of Babylon. They are ambassadors for Christ. Neither Paul nor Isaiah nor Moses nor Daniel taught falsehoods about God. Can two walk together except they be agreed? Amos 3:3. What concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 2 Corinthians 6:15

Salvation is based upon what we believe, our faith. Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17. We must study to show ourselves approved unto God, workmen that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15

Regards,

Gordon



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Dennis Wicklund

Date:
Permalink   

Gordon is right on the money.  I agree that the wine of Babylon includes all her false teachings.  But where I am looking for more, and most current SDA's are not in this area, is the Babylonian teaching of God Himself.  The reason SDA's are not searching in this area is because of the Laodicean condition.  Don't stop your search at the Sabbath and the state of the dead, for these are only a couple of what comprise this wine.  The pioneers had no trouble identifying which teachings came from the harlot's cup, full of abominations. 


D.W.



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Dennis Wicklund

Date:
Permalink   

Jeffery Fitzsimmons wrote:


Within in many churches I have been involved with where there is genuine people who really love our Lord, are victims to the CB (Concern Brethern) movement within our church.  The CBs I have met and seen do have a simular spirit the Phariees of old, who pay their tithe and offerings, over critical of the church and never smile with the oil of joy.  These people believe that they a pulse on "the truth" or "the most important issues" they forget they are sheep and that we have a Shephard.    Your quotation, Denis "I believe that it is because this wine is being imbibed by our SDA ministers and those in positions of authority are fertilizing the ground with their drunk sentiments."  It is probably evident by your quote that you have not happy with the direction of SDA is going and that you most likely believe that the Wine of the Harlot has been drunk by our Ministers.  While on some levels I might agree with you but overall I believe that the God is fully aware of the cause and the affect. The Laodicean Message: We were warned by Jesus, "...regarding Laodicean message (Rev3:14-22), which we are sometimes lazy and appears a little drunk and complacency within the church, the cure to the Laodicean message is a complete surrender of everything in your life that would hinder the Holy Spirit from ripping his fruit within you." If Christ's return is conditional on us being faithful, right in doctrines, the choice of our wine/oil and our ability to "keep the Sabbath perfectly holy" then no one would be saved or left on the earth.  Some people pay their tithe regularly as a means of a life insurance policy but our debt to Jesus is so great not one righteous penny from our banks can pay it. As you know Denis we are purely saved by the blood of Jesus, nothing more nothing less. In Christ Jeffery  


 


Ahhh Jeffrey,


Do you think your words are a balm to me?  No, they are condescending and trifling.  But you knew that already.  Jeff,  your words reflect the very attitude of Laodicea.  "We are rich and in need of nothing."  Please brother, if you sincerely believe that the current state of things in the NAD reflects the true fruit of joy, we are truly cut from a different stock.  No matter what your over-generalization termed "CB"'s say and do, there are those sighing and crying over Israel who have pure hearts and clean hands.  If you are not one of them, and do not care to be one, then you will likely go to your grave singing, at ease in Zion!!!!


Farewell,


Dennis



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Dennis Wicklund

Date:
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Dennis Wicklund wrote:


Jeffery Fitzsimmons wrote: Within in many churches I have been involved with where there is genuine people who really love our Lord, are victims to the CB (Concern Brethern) movement within our church.  The CBs I have met and seen do have a simular spirit the Phariees of old,


 


The Pharisees were hardcore defenders of the Jewish church, such as those in the higher echelons of SDA Church administration, who love to take people like me to task, and eventually to court to sue should I persist.  It has already happened and will continue to should time last.




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Jeffery Fitzsimmons

Date:
Permalink   

Dear Dennis


Where is the fruit and happiness in your life to make such statements they are not against me but against the Lord because they do not witness to others whom are seeking Him they premote the very fruits of this world, these are your words Dennis - Do testify of your love for the Lord?



  • "...who love to take people like me to task, and eventually to court to sue should I persist.  It has already happened and will continue to should time last."

  • "...Do you think your words are a balm to me?  No, they are condescending and trifling..."

I am not person you are fighting against is God, it is really sad that such talented persons like yourself put your energies into a causes that is not based on love but hatred this attitute does not do the cause of our Dear Lord Jesus any favours, I do not need to say anything else on the topic only brother 'take it to the Lord in prayer." 


 


In Christ


Jeffery Fitzsimmons



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webmaster

Date:
Permalink   

What are you in danger of being taken to court over, Dennis?

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Dennis Wicklund

Date:
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webmaster wrote:


What are you in danger of being taken to court over, Dennis?


I am not in danger that I know of at this time.  But I have read of others who hold the same views who have been sued over the use of the SDA name.  Thank you for taking me to task on this.  I don't want to give a false impression, yet I do want others to know that this has happened albeit not on a gross scale.


Dennis



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