Now, while our great High Priest is making the atonement for us, we should seek to become perfect in Christ.  Not even by a thought could our Saviour be brought to yield to the power of temptation.  Satan finds in human hearts some point where he can gain a foothold; some sinful desire is cherished, by means of which his temptations assert their power.  But Christ declared of Himself: "The prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me."  John 14:30.  Satan could find nothing in the Son of God that would enable him to gain the victory.  He had kept His Father's commandments, and there was no sin in Him that Satan could use to his advantage.  This is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the time of trouble.  {GC 623.1} 

Feb 14,1893 RH para 6

The injunction of Christ is, Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. He here shows us that we may be as perfect in our sphere as God is in His sphere.Testimonies for the Church 4:454, 455, 1880 

I've found that the vast majority of people have a false conception of what the word "perfect" means.

The analogy of a seed of corn is, I believe, very instructive.

Is it perfect as a seed? Yes.

Is it perfect as a young plant? Yes.

Is it perfect as a mature plant? Yes.

Is it perfect when it is laden down with ears of ripe corn? Yes.

So we see that in all these stages, it is perfect.

In a similar vein, Jesus was perfect, yet he chose to come to this earth to be perfected.

Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; 

The best definition of "perfect" that I've been able to come up with is: doing what God created you to do.

With regard to the discussion above, I think it's worth noting that "perfection" is used to refer to stages of character development, and also refers to the finished product, for example the 144,000 after the close of probation.  Even in the latter case, "perfection" does not mean that we're doing it all by ourselves, or that we have reached the divine level of the Father and Son.  Rather, it means that we have learned to fully depend on Christ to be kept from falling.

Below are four quotes that I have re the stages of perfection.

(1)

The plant must either grow or die.  As its growth is silent and imperceptible, but continuous, so is the growth of character.  At every stage of development our life may be perfect; yet if God's purpose for us is fulfilled, there will be constant advancement.   {AG 197.6} 

(2)

 "The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul."  Through obedience comes sanctification of body, soul, and spirit.  This sanctification is a progressive work, and an advance from one stage of perfection to another.  {ML 250.4} 

(3)

The germination of the seed represents the beginning of spiritual life, and the development of the plant is a beautiful figure of Christian growth.  As in nature, so in grace; there can be no life without growth.  The plant must either grow or die.  As its growth is silent and imperceptible, but continuous, so is the development of the Christian life.  At every stage of development our life may be perfect; yet if God's purpose for us is fulfilled, there will be continual advancement.  Sanctification is the work of a lifetime.  As our opportunities multiply, our experience will enlarge, and our knowledge increase. We shall become strong to bear responsibility, and our maturity will be in proportion to our privileges.  {COL 65.2} 

(4)

God leads His people on, step by step.  He brings them up to different points calculated to manifest what is in the heart.  Some endure at one point, but fall off at the next.  At every advanced point the heart is tested and tried a little closer.  If the professed people of God find their hearts opposed to this straight work, it should convince them that they have a work to do to overcome, if they would not be spewed out of the mouth of the Lord.  Said the angel: "God will bring His work closer and closer to test and prove every one of His people."  Some are willing to receive one point; but when God brings them to another testing point, they shrink from it and stand back, because they find that it strikes directly at some cherished idol.  Here they have opportunity to see what is in their hearts that shuts out Jesus.  They prize something higher than the truth, and their hearts are not prepared to receive Jesus.  Individuals are tested and proved a length of time to see if they will sacrifice their idols and heed the counsel of the True Witness.  If any will not be purified through obeying the truth, and overcome their selfishness, their pride, and evil passions, the angels of God have the charge: "They are joined to their idols, let them alone," and they pass on to their work, leaving these with their sinful traits unsubdued, to the control of evil angels.  Those who come up to every point, and stand every test, and overcome, be the price what it may, have heeded the counsel of the True Witness, and they will receive the latter rain, and thus be fitted for translation. {1T 187.1} 

Nb wrote:

---

God said all creation including the plants, was Good and then He said it was Very Good. 
He didnt use the word perfect.

Why not?

 

What then is the difference between Good and Perfect?

---

Hi Nb, I think there are several ways of answering this question.

One way is to note that the human kingdom is radically different from the plant and animal kingdoms.  Suppose that you have a garden, including some okra plants, and one day you overhear two okra plants talking to each other, and one says, "I think I can do better next year".

This is of course silly, but serves to illustrate a point -- in contrast to plants, humans do have the powers of discernment and thought, and the ability to open their hearts to Christ, and become transformed, choosing day by day to be freshly converted (Luke 9:23, Galatians 2:20).  As we've already mentioned, there are stages of this transformation process.

We've also noted groups like the 144,000 in the last moment of time, who are considered perfect in a different way from those before the close of probation.

The point is that we as humans have the powers of knowledge and reason, and the ongoing power of choice.  Because of these things, our growth doesn't stop, even after we are taken to heaven.  The last page of the Conflict of the Ages series makes a profound statement about this, which I have reproduced below.

This is one way of differentiating between "good" and "perfect".

And the years of eternity, as they roll, will bring richer and still more glorious revelations of God and of Christ.  As knowledge is progressive, so will love, reverence, and happiness increase.  The more men learn of God, the greater will be their admiration of His character.  As Jesus opens before them the riches of redemption and the amazing achievements in the great controversy with Satan, the hearts of the ransomed thrill with more fervent devotion, and with more rapturous joy they sweep the harps of gold; and ten thousand times ten thousand and thousands of thousands of voices unite to swell the mighty chorus of praise.  {GC 678.1} 

Nb wrote:

---

Thank you for your response .  Its wonderful thinking about heaven.

Still putting in much thought on these things a work in progress .

perfect by definition seems complete and static.  It doesnt allow room for growth.  An artist puts in the final touches of the painting of the last supper.  Any more touches of the brush would ruin it.  Therefore we could say it would be complete and perfect just as it is.

good or very good would still allow for growth

---

Hi Nb, it might be worth considering some other ways of approaching this issue.

Let me illustrate with an example.

Suppose that a person is an atheist, and at some point, starts to look at what Christ has done for the world.

Suppose that the person continues this study, and one day makes a decision from the heart to embrace Christ's approach.

Suppose that a day later, the person has a tragic accident, and passes from this world.

The gospel we espouse says that the person will ultimately be saved, and we've already mentioned the various stages of Christian growth.

I've included a couple of quotes below.  The first talks about imputed and imparted righteousness, and the second about being accounted righteous.  These approaches may be alternatives in helping us to study and think this subject completely through.

---

The righteousness by which we are justified is imputed; the righteousness by which we are sanctified is imparted.  The first is our title to heaven, the second is our fitness for heaven.  {RH, June 4, 1895 par. 7}

It was possible for Adam, before the fall, to form a righteous character by obedience to God's law.  But he failed to do this, and because of his sin our natures are fallen and we cannot make ourselves righteous.  Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law.  We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God.  But Christ has made a way of escape for us.  He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet.  He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness.  If you give yourself to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then, sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous.  Christ's character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned.  {SC 62.2}

Nb, you wrote: "perfect by definition seems complete and static.  It doesnt allow room for growth."

Does that mean you don't believe Hebrews 2:10 or 5:9?

Again, many people have a false concept of what "perfect" means.

To say that what God made was not perfect, is in effect, saying that God didn't do His best in the Creation.

Once again, by definition perfect implies complete and doesnt leave room for growth. 
But when we speak of perfect in our sphere according to Christ likeness it might mean something else. 

"Once again, by definition perfect implies complete and doesnt leave room for growth. "

I keep showing that definition is not correct.

Don't you believe Jesus was perfect when he was in the womb of Mary?

Nb wrote:

---

webmaster wrote:

---

"Once again, by definition perfect implies complete and doesnt leave room for growth. "

I keep showing that definition is not correct.

Don't you believe Jesus was perfect when he was in the womb of Mary?

---

So what you both are saying is that the Bible definition is different than Webster. 

---

If I enter "define perfect" in the Google search box, the result that is displayed is an entry from Oxford Languages, and shows two basic definitions of "perfect" as an adjective.

If I display the Strong's numbers for Philippians 3:12-15, the "perfect" in verse 15 is different from the "perfect" in verse 12.

See the Strong's output below.

---

Phi 3:12 Not <3756> as though <3754> I had already <2235> attained <2983> (5627), either <2228> were already <2235> perfect <5048> (5769): but <1161> I follow after <1377> (5719), if <1499> that I may apprehend <2638> (5632) that for <1909> which <3739> also <2532> I am apprehended <2638> (5681) of <5259> Christ <5547> Jesus <2424>.

Phi 3:13 Brethren <80>, I <1473> count <3049> (5736) not <3756> myself <1683> to have apprehended <2638> (5760): but <1161> [this] one thing <1520> [I do], forgetting <1950> (5740) those things <3303> which are behind <3694>, and <1161> reaching forth unto <1901> (5740) (5734) those things which are before <1715>,

Phi 3:14 I press <1377> (5719) toward <2596> the mark <4649> for <1909> the prize <1017> of the high <507> calling <2821> of God <2316> in <1722> Christ <5547> Jesus <2424>.

Phi 3:15 Let <5426> <0> us therefore <3767>, as many as <3745> be perfect <5046>, be <5426> <0> thus <5124> minded <5426> (5725): and <2532> if in any thing <1536> ye be <5426> <0> otherwise <2088> minded <5426> (5719), God <2316> shall reveal <601> (5692) even <2532> this <5124> unto you <5213>.

Nb wrote:

---

? is this what it is saying ?
Can never be perfect ourselves but in Christ we can be perfect in our human sphere. 

? did any disciple or apostle or prophet ever say they were perfect? 

---

Hi Nb, there is no spiritual support whatsoever for the idea of us being perfect in ourselves, apart from Christ.

The same is true for Christ Himself during the Incarnation, when He took on human nature, and depended entirely on His Father (John 6:57, Hebrews 2:14-18, Hebrews 4:14-16).  This is a rich theme, and the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy have quite a bit on it.

If we go beyond this, and look at the quotes already posted above, what they say is that there are degrees of spiritual maturity, based on our ever-increasing dependence on Christ, and the word "perfect" is used in several ways to reflect this.

With regard to your question about apostles / disciples claiming perfection, see the quote below.

---

None of the apostles and prophets ever claimed to be without sin.  Men who have lived the nearest to God, men who would sacrifice life itself rather than knowingly commit a wrong act, men whom God has honored with divine light and power, have confessed the sinfulness of their nature.  They have put no confidence in the flesh, have claimed no righteousness of their own, but have trusted wholly in the righteousness of Christ.  {AA 561.1} 

By dwelling upon the love of God and our Saviour, by contemplating the perfection of the divine character and claiming the righteousness of Christ as ours by faith, we are to be transformed into the same image  

5T. 744.2

by faith !!  

Whatever is to be done at His command, may be accomplished in His strength.

Amen!