anyone there?

Date: Mar 17, 2020

RE: anyone there?

Date: Apr 22, 2020

webmaster wrote:
She wrote regarding the 7 Thunders that they said what happened under the 1st and 2nd Angels' messages, with the strong impression being that they detailed what happened between 1831 and 1844 - as that is the time of the 1st and 2nd Angels' messages.

I really wonder how can someone prove this using the Bible only (that "the seven thunders was a delineation of events which would transpire under the first and second angels messages."{19MR 320.3}).

Date: Apr 26, 2020

webmaster wrote:
One thing I must warn you of, is to take just one quote, and make that the final word on a subject.

I also agree on this one. Though I don't believe that God has to say 100 times a thing in order for that thing to be true, it is so easy for us to make quotes sound like telling something they don't actually tell. I have seen this very often.

Date: May 26, 2020

NB wrote:
When we get to the point of 1844, no more assigning prophectic time/ a day as a year. After that everything is literal. For example, the 1,000 years.

Sorry, I don't agree with this one. We have "about the space of half an hour" in Rev. 8:1, which is 7 days according to the day / year principle. It's the time of the journey for the redeemed ones to the holy city. If anyone is willing to look into it, I can give a more detailed explanation on this.

Date: May 26, 2020

I'm interested.

Date: May 29, 2020

Thank you Shireen! I will start by applying the one day for a year principle (Num. 14:34; Ez. 4:6) to the time of "about the space of half an hour" of Rev. 8:1:

1 prophetic day = 1 literal year (360 days)
1 prophtetic hour = 1 prophetic day / 24h in a day = 1 literal year / 24 = 12 months / 24 = 1/2 months = 15 literal days
1/2 prophetic hours = 15 literal days / 2 = 7.5 literal days
about 1/2 prophetic hours = about 7.5 literal days, which leads us to 7 literal days.

These 7 days (or one week) are in fact the "seven days" (Lev. 23:41) of the anti-typical Feast of ingathering. Rev. 14:14-20 is also a prophetic image that anti-typical Feast and a repetition of Rev. 8:1. The reason why I believe this is because in Revelation everything is repeated which means, according to Genesis 41:32, that we are dealing with an unconditional prophecy in this book.

In the shadow of Old Testament rituals it was ordained for the Jewish people to celebrate the feast, when they were to live in tents for 7 days. On this occasion they were to commemorate God's guidance and care during their journey through the wilderness to the promised land. But there is more to this, because this journey is an image of God's people traveling through the wilderness of this world as strangers and pilgrims to their heavenly home. That "about the space of half an hour" feast of Rev. 8:1 is when the redeemed ones celebrate God's protection and care on their way to the New Jerusalem. There is silence in heaven because Christ empties it of all His angels, who are following Him at the 2nd Advent. Thus, Christ's redemptive work is complete when the seventh seal is opened.

Date: May 29, 2020

zafer wrote:
in Revelation everything is repeated which means, according to Genesis 41:32, that we are dealing with an unconditional prophecy in this book.

I will try to back-up this with a table showing how things are repeated in the book of Revelation. It's the first table at the link bellow (it didn't work to paste the table here in the comment, so I had to do it this way):

https://7trumpets.wordpress.com/

Date: May 31, 2020

zafer wrote:
NB wrote:
When we get to the point of 1844, no more assigning prophectic time/ a day as a year. After that everything is literal. For example, the 1,000 years.
Sorry, I don't agree with this one. We have "about the space of half an hour" in Rev. 8:1, which is 7 days according to the day / year principle. It's the time of the journey for the redeemed ones to the holy city. If anyone is willing to look into it, I can give a more detailed explanation on this.

Prophetic time closed in 1844. {1SG 148.1}

Date: Jun 2, 2020

NB wrote:
zafer wrote:
NB wrote:
When we get to the point of 1844, no more assigning prophectic time/ a day as a year. After that everything is literal. For example, the 1,000 years.
Sorry, I don't agree with this one. We have "about the space of half an hour" in Rev. 8:1, which is 7 days according to the day / year principle. It's the time of the journey for the redeemed ones to the holy city. If anyone is willing to look into it, I can give a more detailed explanation on this.
Prophetic time closed in 1844. {1SG 148.1}

Jesus did not come to earth as the waiting, joyful company expected, to cleanse the Sanctuary, by purifying the earth by fire. I saw that they were correct in their reckoning of the prophetic periods. Prophetic time closed in 1844. Their mistake consisted in not understanding what the Sanctuary was, and the nature of its cleansing. Jesus did enter the Most Holy place to cleanse the Sanctuary at the ending of the days. I looked again at the waiting, disappointed company. They looked sad. They carefully examined the evidences of their faith, and followed down through the reckoning of the prophetic periods, and could discover no mistake. Time was fulfilled, but where was their Saviour? They had lost him. {1SG 148.1}

Here is talking specifically about the prophetic periods leading to 1844. It doesn't say that there is no prophetic period whatsoever after 1844, nor that one day for a year principle doesn't apply any longer after 1844.

Date: Jun 2, 2020

It says what it says

prophetic time closed in 1844

it does not say no more prophecies

we all know the 1,000 years has not happened yet

it also says that they got the time right but we all know they got the event wrong

it says prophetic time ends which means a day for a year calculation has ended

it doesnt make sense in rev 13 that we won't be able to buy or sell for 42 months or 1260 years but it could happen for a literal 42 months or 3 1/2 years

this is how I understand it. If you dont see it that way now thats okay

just keep studying

Date: Jun 3, 2020

Nb wrote:
it doesnt make sense in rev 13 that we won't be able to buy or sell for 42 months or 1260 years but it could happen for a literal 42 months or 3 1/2 years

this is how I understand it. If you dont see it that way now thats okay
just keep studying

The fact that 42 months (Rev. 13:5) are mentioned after the healing of the deadly wound (v. 3) doesn't necessarily place them after this event. Things are not always chronological in the Bible. This doesn't mean that there is no reason for this order in which things are recorded.

Going back to Genesis 41:32 principle of the unconditional prophecy, Rev. 13 is a repetition of Rev. 4-6. And Rev. 4-5 is the same thing with the judgement scene of Dan. 7, with the difference that Daniel records the activity of Antichrist (or "the little horn", as it is represented here) during this investigative judgement taking place in heaven. In the book of Revelation this activity is left for its second half, which deals specifically with the great controversy between Christ and Satan. So, the focus of Rev. 13 is the activity of Antichrist while the judgement takes place in heaven (since 1844) but, speaking about that, it gives additional information about the identity of this power. One background information about who is this beast is that "power was given unto him to continue forty and two months" (v. 5). When were these 42 months? It doesn't say specifically here because it was already told in Daniel (from the time when the daily is removed and the transgression/abomination of desolation takes its place). It is the time when the Antichrist was ruling before receiving the deadly wound, while the two witnesses were prophesying clothed in sackcloth.

And, just to make things clear, I'm not going to start the Inquisition because people see things different than me. :) In fact, it's not for the first time when I've seen this idea on this forum (that the 1260 days are literal and are in the future), but I didn't get involved until now in such discussions. And, not only on this forum, but there were other circumstances where I met this way of analyzing the text from the premise that things are recorded in chronological order. I consider this as a misconception which is quite common among Bible students and can lead to wrong conclusions.

Date: Jun 3, 2020

okay I guess we will agree to disagree....

more important that these things are our relationship with Christ Jesus...

Date: Jun 11, 2020

Thanks Zafer. I bookmarked your website for later reading.

I'll admit I don't currently see how prophetic time could have ended in 1844, yet the day-for-year principle still be in effect today..... I guess you're saying that the "prophetic time" was ONLY referring to the time leading up to October 22, 1844.

There are numerous clues throughout the Bible, and outright direct writings in Revelation that show a 3 1/2 year period of time near the end. The greatest clue of all is that Jesus' mission here on earth was 3 1/2 years, and he is the perfect example for especially the 144,000. smile

Date: Jun 22, 2020

webmaster wrote:
We had a very interesting talk in church recently during sabbath school, about the 2300 days. I made the remark that the whole "day for a year" principle which we SDAs have traditionally used to justify our interpreting that as occurring from 457BC to 1844AD, is very, very weak. There is nothing at all in the context to suggest doing that. HOWEVER, there is very strong evidence to suggest that it means 2300 DAY OF ATONEMENTS.

Quite interesting! That would mean that the start date of 2300 is also on the day of atonement, that of 457 BC, right? What do you think about the 70 weeks fraction mentioned in Dan. 9? Did this end on the 10th day of the 7th month too, which would mean that Stephen was stoned on the day of atonement of 34 CE? And how about the baptism of Jesus? Was it on the atonement day of 27 CE?

Date: Jun 24, 2020

To me, it's so obvious that the start of the 2,300 evening-morning prophecy was on a Day of Atonement, that it doesn't even need to be said. But I find that very few have ever even considered it. If it ended on a DOA, OF COURSE it HAD TO have started on a DOA. And yes, Jesus, started his public ministry basically at Capernaum when he read the Jubilee language from Isaiah. The Jubilee is only on a DOA.

One undisputed fact that shows that the stoning of Stephen could NOT have possibly been the end of the 70 week prophecy, is that it would have had to have occurred on a DOA, and if it did, then Paul was a liar when he said later that he always kept the laws, as he was definitely working on the day that Stephen was stoned. Not to mention the fact that all the Jewish leaders would have been out of their minds to openly work to pick up stones on a Day of Atonement!

This long delay in fulfilling the 70 week prophecy is explained in Revelation 10:6 "and swore by the one who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, and the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, There will be no more delay!"

Date: Jun 27, 2020

zafer wrote:
webmaster wrote:
One thing I must warn you of, is to take just one quote, and make that the final word on a subject.
I also agree on this one. Though I don't believe that God has to say 100 times a thing in order for that thing to be true, it is so easy for us to make quotes sound like telling something they don't actually tell. I have seen this very often.

While this is true, sometimes we only get one truth nugget in all the writings!! In other cases, we need to read all the references to that one subject and then take the one that is closest to the originals as possible. Not to exclude the Holy Spirit impressions and the Word of God of course. Sometimes these things fall into Grey areas where we are not certain.

Date: Jun 27, 2020

webmaster wrote:
To me, it's so obvious that the start of the 2,300 evening-morning prophecy was on a Day of Atonement, that it doesn't even need to be said. But I find that very few have ever even considered it. If it ended on a DOA, OF COURSE it HAD TO have started on a DOA. And yes, Jesus, started his public ministry basically at Capernaum when he read the Jubilee language from Isaiah. The Jubilee is only on a DOA.
One undisputed fact that shows that the stoning of Stephen could NOT have possibly been the end of the 70 week prophecy, is that it would have had to have occurred on a DOA, and if it did, then Paul was a liar when he said later that he always kept the laws, as he was definitely working on the day that Stephen was stoned. Not to mention the fact that all the Jewish leaders would have been out of their minds to openly work to pick up stones on a Day of Atonement!
This long delay in fulfilling the 70 week prophecy is explained in Revelation 10:6 "and swore by the one who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, and the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, There will be no more delay!"

There are only 2 times where Jesus STANDS UP in the bible... all the other times Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father by the throne. These 2 times are significant. At the stoning of Stephen after the 490 years, Jesus is seen STANDING up next to the Father. This is the close of probation for the Jewish nation as a whole. The next time is in Daniel 12 when Michael (Jesus) stands up. This is the close of probation for the world.

Date: Jun 27, 2020

zafer wrote:
Nb wrote:
it doesnt make sense in rev 13 that we won't be able to buy or sell for 42 months or 1260 years but it could happen for a literal 42 months or 3 1/2 years

this is how I understand it. If you dont see it that way now thats okay
just keep studying
The fact that 42 months (Rev. 13:5) are mentioned after the healing of the deadly wound (v. 3) doesn't necessarily place them after this event. Things are not always chronological in the Bible. This doesn't mean that there is no reason for this order in which things are recorded.
Going back to Genesis 41:32 principle of the unconditional prophecy, Rev. 13 is a repetition of Rev. 4-6. And Rev. 4-5 is the same thing with the judgement scene of Dan. 7, with the difference that Daniel records the activity of Antichrist (or "the little horn", as it is represented here) during this investigative judgement taking place in heaven. In the book of Revelation this activity is left for its second half, which deals specifically with the great controversy between Christ and Satan. So, the focus of Rev. 13 is the activity of Antichrist while the judgement takes place in heaven (since 1844) but, speaking about that, it gives additional information about the identity of this power. One background information about who is this beast is that "power was given unto him to continue forty and two months" (v. 5). When were these 42 months? It doesn't say specifically here because it was already told in Daniel (from the time when the daily is removed and the transgression/abomination of desolation takes its place). It is the time when the Antichrist was ruling before receiving the deadly wound, while the two witnesses were prophesying clothed in sackcloth.
And, just to make things clear, I'm not going to start the Inquisition because people see things different than me. :) In fact, it's not for the first time when I've seen this idea on this forum (that the 1260 days are literal and are in the future), but I didn't get involved until now in such discussions. And, not only on this forum, but there were other circumstances where I met this way of analyzing the text from the premise that things are recorded in chronological order. I consider this as a misconception which is quite common among Bible students and can lead to wrong conclusions.

I agree that there was a past event of 1260 years. But because of the repetition of the time is meant for the future the 42 months are literal. That being said, if you disagree, that's okay, just know that when these things start to unfold, you all have been informed and we all will see it play out if in fact we are alive to see it all. All according to God's providence.

Date: Jun 29, 2020

webmaster wrote:
To me, it's so obvious that the start of the 2,300 evening-morning prophecy was on a Day of Atonement, that it doesn't even need to be said. But I find that very few have ever even considered it. If it ended on a DOA, OF COURSE it HAD TO have started on a DOA. And yes, Jesus, started his public ministry basically at Capernaum when he read the Jubilee language from Isaiah. The Jubilee is only on a DOA.
One undisputed fact that shows that the stoning of Stephen could NOT have possibly been the end of the 70 week prophecy, is that it would have had to have occurred on a DOA, and if it did, then Paul was a liar when he said later that he always kept the laws, as he was definitely working on the day that Stephen was stoned. Not to mention the fact that all the Jewish leaders would have been out of their minds to openly work to pick up stones on a Day of Atonement!
This long delay in fulfilling the 70 week prophecy is explained in Revelation 10:6 "and swore by the one who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, and the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, There will be no more delay!"

This was BEFORE Paul's conversion.... the Jews broke the Law of God often despite their own rules and regulations. Jesus pointed that out to them and they didn't like it.

Jesus died on the cross after 3 1/2 years or half of the 70 week prophecy of Daniel. You can't just take half a week and put it into the future can you?

Date: Jun 29, 2020

I see Jesus standing up and even walking around many times in the Bible. So I'm uncertain what to make of your "only 2 times" statement, NB.

It's not possible that the stoning of Stephen signalled the end of probation for the Jewish nation, as that is refuted in the Bible, and in the 1858 Great Controversy too. Why did our SDA organization ever take that one quote from the 1888 Great Controversy, I think it was, and run with that contrary to all the other statements refuting it?

I too used to believe that, but to imagine that killing Stephen somehow meant more in the great plan of salvation to the Jewish nation than the crucifixion of Jesus is mind-boggling to me now, and makes me sorry for believing that way.

Agreed completely with your "grey areas" statement. Yet agreeing to that makes me sad that I myself don't have even enough of the Spirit of God to determine what exactly is truth in every case. Jesus sure did, praise his holy name! smile

Date: Jul 1, 2020

here are some of those SITTING on or by the throne. There may be others.

2 Chronicles 18:18 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the Lord ; I saw the Lord sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left.

Isaiah 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

here are the 2 standing ones by the throne that signal the end of probation for the world in Daniel 12 and the end of probation for the Jewish nation in Acts.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Date: Jul 4, 2020

Nb wrote:
here are some of those SITTING on or by the throne. There may be others.

2 Chronicles 18:18 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the Lord ; I saw the Lord sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left.

Isaiah 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

here are the 2 standing ones by the throne that signal the end of probation for the world in Daniel 12 and the end of probation for the Jewish nation in Acts.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Wow, this is just great! For whatever reason, the words uttered by the Holy Ghost through Stephen made the Jews really furious. It might be that they knew what they meant. There are a few facts to consider regarding their meaning and context:

Those who started the dispute with Stephen and than stirred people against him in order to bring him to the council to be judged were Jews from diaspora: Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen (Acts 6:9).
The OT feasts were periods when you would expect Jews from diaspora to be in Jerusalem.
According to the Jewish tradition, the gates of heaven are opened om the 1st day of the 7th month (which is the trumpets feast). This is the beginning of those 10 days of calling to repentance, until the day of atonement, when everyone's destiny is sealed (https://forthosewhoareinterested.wordpress.com/2015/09/05/the-feast-of-trumpets-is-the-day-of-the-opening-of-the-gates/)
Leaving aside the Jewish tradition, the Bible mentions some other moments in history when the heavens were opened. Three of them are connected with the 2300 years period of Daniel 8-9 (or 2300 DOAs, as webmaster mentioned):

- the baptism of Jesus

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him (Mat. 3:16).

- death of Stephen

And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God (Acts 7:56).

- beginning of the investigative judgment at the end of 2300 period

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter (Rev. 4:1).

The vision of Rev. 4-5 follows closely the judgment scene of Dan. 7, describing the same event. The stoning of Stephen is believed to have taken place in 34 AD. If we accept it to mark the end of the 70 weeks period of Dan. 9, than it must be in the fall of 34. Or, to be more exact, on the day of atonement. But when we come to the baptism of Jesus, this is where things get really interesting ...

Date: Jul 5, 2020

webmaster wrote:
It's not possible that the stoning of Stephen signalled the end of probation for the Jewish nation, as that is refuted in the Bible, and in the 1858 Great Controversy too. Why did our SDA organization ever take that one quote from the 1888 Great Controversy, I think it was, and run with that contrary to all the other statements refuting it?

Sorry, I missed what you wrote here! I agree with what you said in other post that our arguments regarding the 2300 of Dan. 8 are very weak. It would be great if you can give more details. Personally I came to realize that all that Artaxerxes argument is not sound at all. It may come from the 1888 edition of GC mentioned here by you. As I understand, the seventh month movement, which is the midnight cry, was not based on Artaxerxes decree, but rather on the calendar given by God in Lev. 23.

Now, going back to Stephen, it's true that there is no verse in the Bible to tell in plain words: "this was the end of the 70 weeks period". But such plain words are nowhere to be found telling what year was the beginning of that period (or of the 2300). That is to be determined only by a diligent study, comparing verse with verse. And, if someone asks me, I can tell that for me is easier to prove that the 70 weeks ended on the day of atonement of 34 AD, than that the beginning was on the day of atonement of 457 BC. At least I have the event of 34 AD recorded in detail and it seems to be the death of Stephen. So I cannot but wonder where in the Bible and original GC is refuted the idea that the stoning of Stephen marked the end of probation for the Jewish nation.

Date: Jul 7, 2020

start a new thread about the beginning of the 2300 day prophecy

Date: Jul 16, 2020

webmaster wrote:
I'll admit I don't currently see how prophetic time could have ended in 1844, yet the day-for-year principle still be in effect today..... I guess you're saying that the "prophetic time" was ONLY referring to the time leading up to October 22, 1844.

Yes, the paragraph of 1SG speaks specifically about the prophetic periods leading to 1844 like the 70 weeks, the 1260, 1290, 1335 days. If we are to talk about the one in Ms 59 / 1900, that is to me a very fishy ms. What it teaches about the 7 thunders there I find it to be unscriptural. Or maybe there is someone to show me how this can proved using the Bible as its own interpreter. Also, the idea that after 1844 there can be no tracing of prophetic time is highly questionable.

That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him (Eph. 1:10)

Until than there is time still and there is prophetic time. Everything will happen according to the times (chronos) and seasons (kairos) of God's perfect calendar.

Date: Jul 16, 2020

webmaster wrote:
There are numerous clues throughout the Bible, and outright direct writings in Revelation that show a 3 1/2 year period of time near the end. The greatest clue of all is that Jesus' mission here on earth was 3 1/2 years, and he is the perfect example for especially the 144,000.

For the sake of typology I can consider a period of 3 and 1/2 years in the future, but so far I didn't find a clear reference in the Bible to that. It's true that in the Bible the number 7 is a division of time, as God used this number from creation to divide the time. Still, this is not a good enough reason to re-apply the 42 months period (7/2) mentioned in Daniel and Revelation in the future as literal. First of all, the unconditional prophecies have only one fulfillment. Only the conditional can have multiple and partial fulfillment as they come to live every time the conditions are met. Besides this, I am not aware of any time prophecy who was fulfilled multiple times.

Date: Jul 18, 2020

zafer, you mention the 1335.

Can you explain how that possibly could have been fulfilled in the past?

I can't see it....

Date: Jul 28, 2020

webmaster wrote:
zafer, you mention the 1335.
Can you explain how that possibly could have been fulfilled in the past?
I can't see it....

And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long [shall it be to] the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished. And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what [shall be] the end of these [things]? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. And from the time [that] the daily shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. (Dan. 12:6-12)

Hi webmaster, I will try not to be very long, with the risk of not being very convincing either. Normally, an answer to this question would require a thorough understanding of the subject of abomination of desolation and of what has been presented in the previous chapters of Daniel. The 1335 of Dan. 12 is build on that. Abomination is a type of wickedness which, according to the covenant God made with His people, would eventually lead to the desolation of the land and the scattering of the holy people. The harlot of Rev. 17 is called in v. 5 the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. It was first set up in 508 AD when, according to Dan. 8:12, a host was given against the daily (paganism). It's the conversion of king Clovis with his army to Catholicism the event which marked this beginning of the prophetic periods of both 1290 and 1335. In 538, when the last opposing power was removed (the last horn), the head of the Roman church become an unchallenged civil ruler too, and thus it is symbolized as a beast.

Even pagan Rome is presented as a desolating power in Dan. 26-27. But of papal Rome it is said "he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people" (Dan. 8:24). Both pagan and papal Rome are called "wonders" and, when the question is asked about the end of these wonders, it actually means "when it will be the end of these scattering powers?". The answer basically is that in 1798, when the scattering is accomplished, but the blessing will only come 45 years later, in 1843. Why 1843? Well, the blessing is the reverse of the curse of the covenant. And, while the curse is consumed in 1798 with the deadly wound received by the scattering beast, the blessing was going to come only after a time of repentance and reformation among God's people. In His covenant with His people, God promised that if they will turn their hearts to Him, even if they will be scattered in the four winds of heaven, He is going to bring them back. Like in the time of Cyrus, when a small remnant returned from Babylon, from 1843 a small remnant came out of Babylon as a result of the proclamation of the second angel's message (2nd AM), starting in the summer of that year through Charles Fitch.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/80ea/305926470b760763937873071a174ba66d35.pdf

Date: Jul 30, 2020

While I agree that the traditional Adventist interpretation of 508-1798, 538-1798, and 508-1843 are historical waymarks that God used to help strengthen the faith of those in the fledgling movement, it is obvious today that none of these fit the biblical words perfectly. It is especially obvious with the 508-1843 one, as absolutely nothing warranting a "blessed" occurred in 1843.

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Per Jesus' own words, the Abomination of Desolation has not occurred yet, as I write in 2020: Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Not one person on the planet has ever heeded these words since 70AD, making it abundantly clear that this prophecy has a future, end-time fulfillment.

One thing that stirred my thinking processes on this issue, is that one of the early Adventist pioneers made a chart after the Great Disappointment of 1844, sliding the 1335 from 508 to 509. That's not being faithful to the original chart which showed it starting in 508. While the 2300 day prophecy could be fixed (and rightly so) by adding the year zero to move it to 1844, no such help could be applied to the 1335 prophecy.

Currently, I believe that the 1335 will end with most likely the voice of God at midnight, delivering his people from the death decree, giving the day and hour of Jesus' return.

Date: Jul 31, 2020

webmaster wrote:
One thing that stirred my thinking processes on this issue, is that one of the early Adventist pioneers made a chart after the Great Disappointment of 1844, sliding the 1335 from 508 to 509. That's not being faithful to the original chart which showed it starting in 508. While the 2300 day prophecy could be fixed (and rightly so) by adding the year zero to move it to 1844, no such help could be applied to the 1335 prophecy.

http://www.biblepicturepathways.com/resources/Chart_1850.pdf

I don't know what chat are you referring to, but I had a look on this 1850 chart. As I see, the year 508 AD is still there. It's true that it doesn't seem to show clearly when the 1335 ends.

There are other cases when the Adventists reconsidered some interpretations that didn't work, they still continued to maintain some of the errors, trying to somehow justify them. For instance even today there are sda's who claim that the 7th trumpet started to sound in 1844. That for me simply doesn't work. But with the timeline of 1290 and 1335 I'm quite satisfied the way was presented with the first proclamation of the 1st AM. Only that Miller had, of course, a different understanding as to how the 1335 was going to end.

And yes, it is good for us to be thinking people and not just stay caught in our old stereotypes no matter what. But it would be good maybe not to jump to conclusions very quickly. I say this as to a brother in Christ, without and hard feelings.