Where to begin? Perhaps with Smiths record of the ten year bible study group that for the first time in the history of the Adventist Church began an in depth and exhaustive study of the prophecies. In particular the two books, Daniel and Revelation. As the study group met and various points of prophecy began to come to light they were almost all in agreement! Pretty amazing in itself. James White began to report on the finding of the study group with articles in the Review, he too was on board with their findings. The articles were well received and of great interest. In due time, James White was called away on other business and could no longer provide the updates.
At some point it was suggested that the notes, articles, study group paper work be written up, in a book perhaps. Uriah Smith accepted the challenge and his book, or more correctly stated, his "report" of the groups findings and the accepted beliefs of virtually ALL the pioneers at that time, resulted in what we now typically call, "Daniel and the Revelation", by Uriah Smith.
There are many quotes from Ellen White about how important she viewed this book, placing it along side her own for its value. In the late 1800's she called for yet another book on Daniel and Revelation to be written. This one she wanted to be much smaller, with only a few brief comments as may be required to the predominately bible verses. Let the biblical books of Daniel and Revelation be bound together, a few comments for the verses IF NEEDED, is what she wanted.
Haskell answered the call, with his book, "Seer of Patmos" (I think that was the title). Sister White was disappointed, Haskell's book had missed the mark. While in itself it was a good book, it was at first, ONLY about Revelation. It was also way to big and did not let the verses speak for themselves. The call she had made was for a smaller, simpler book combining the two biblical books, with limited comments.
To date, such a book has not been written!! We have plenty of books on Daniel, or chapters of Daniel, same thing for Revelation. We do not have ANY book that is simple, short, includes BOTH biblical books into one "smallish" book combining them both. Perhaps, 200 pages or so would be a worthy goal. I think what has happened is that the typical "author" has been to influenced by high education and due to "peer pressure" to do a scholarly work, has found it impossible to write a simple, direct, limited commentary book on the subject. So I'm writing it...
Lets try to outline in a summary what we have discovered so far. After Satan's failure to take the life of Gods messenger, with the intention to prevent the writing down of The Great Controversy vision received at Lovett's Grove, the enemy of all righteousness continued to work, trying to block the way, so that the light will not go to the intended recipients. He succeeded to overburden the prophet and also Gods servant, appointed by Him to work in connection with the prophet, and in this way he diverted them from the mission they were especially called to into many others cares and perplexities. All these were about to cost James life and when he finally decided to drop down some of his burdens he made the mistake of dropping down exactly the burden which God has placed on him, while continuing to carry on with the burdens which his brothers should have taken upon their shoulders. He, the one who was supposed to write and publish, to make available everywhere to light from the Lord, handed over to a Board the responsibility of publishing. How serious that mistake was it came out more clearly later on, after the death of James White, as told by the prophet who was by than left alone to face this situation:
"I was made to feel keenly how little safety there would be in leaving my brethren to bear my responsibility." {1888 1236.1} (1894).
Unconsecrated people were used as Satan's agents to take over the publishing work, while this should have been Gods channel to diffuse the light from the testimony of Jesus everywhere.
... But that was not all. Satan continued to work in order to gain control not only of what was supposed to be the channel of light, but of the inspired writings themselves. His financial schemes were a major tool which he used in order to accomplish this:
I have been made sick at heart at this management. I must believe that you would not have done this if you had only known the situation. I am now able to understand more perfectly the light given me when my husband was so feeble in Greenville, Michigan. That was the beginning of divine directions concerning means. I was shown that the Lord would have my husband and myself independent of all our institutions, in financial matters. Our brethren would make many plans to gain control of the profits from our books and other publications, but we must keep the means to use as the Lord directed us. We could understand the wants of the cause better than others; God would teach us how to dispose of the means. He would bring into our possession to be used to his own name's glory. Again, at a later date, cautions were repeated, that since my husband's death propositions would be made in regard to our books and publications that the profits should be under the control of one organization. But I was warned not to shift the responsibility of my stewardship upon any institution or organization; when I should see the needs of the cause in its various branches, then I must act, even though my brethren did not discern the necessity as I saw it. If I called upon men in responsible positions, even for the means which God has intrusted to me, unless they themselves were in a condition to understand the wants of the cause as they were presented before me and urged upon me, these brethren would give counsel to divert that means into other channels. This is why I did not feel free to accept the proposition that I should assign the royalty on my books. I could not conscientiously do so. When after the Minneapolis meeting, the canvassing agents in the field so managed the work that my books fell nearly dead from the press, and when I endeavored to draw means from the publishing house at Battle Creek, and was informed that I had over-drawn my account, and could have no more money, I was made to feel keenly how little safety there would be in leaving my brethren to bear my responsibility. God knows all about this matter. I have had sufficient experience to teach me what I can depend on from my brethren. {1888 1236.1}
I don't know if we realize that, in the light of the paragraph quoted above, such an institution as White Estate doesn't bear Gods unction. Anyhow we are reading EGW's writings as they are released by White Estate. Compilations, books edited and over-edited, with many deletions and additions, are published under EGW's name. In other words, Satan succeeded to corrupt the published works, thus making of no effect the testimonies from the Spirit of God (one of the ways of doing that).
Though William White fought for a while to keep the inspired manuscripts free from the control of the General Conference, they finally managed to take over, and that because of the financial constraints. I don't have clear evidence but I suspect that the financial debts were one of the reasons why Willy White accepted the changes made in her mothers books. The royalty from such books were supposed to cover those debts. Apparently, it didn't really work.
To all these I would add a fourth step made by the devil in his attack: in order to make all the additions in EGW writings accepted, he used agents such as Arthur White and others to misinterpret how the prophetic gift works. On the other hand, he used other of his agents to accuse EGW of plagiarism and use this as evidence against her calling as prophet.
Some thoughts on your comments nb. Sister White had to set up somebody, or some group, to carry on her work. The EGW Estate was the appointed agency, as ineffective and backward as it may have been, somebody, some group, needs to do the work or we would be in even worse condition. As for myself, I don't have a major problem with the compilations, one who is a student of her work will find the proper balance in them. Many of the compilations are of great value.
Especially when you consider what else is available from our publishing work, not much that I care to read. I am very careful what I select from any Adventist author to read, from the early 1900's to date. There are a few authors I thank God for today! LeRoy Moore is one, of a few. As it concerns 1888 (which I've studied in depth) the very best book(s) ever written on the subject (my opinion) is "Return of the latter rain" and its shorter companion book, "Wounded in the house of His friends". Straight truth to be found in these two volumes.
Accusations directed toward the prophet have been around since day one, nothing will stop it. Sad that the brethren didn't help James more in his appointed work, Paul met the same fate, often. As did Sister White, every truly dedicated and appointed of God worker will suffer the same fate at some point. Men of power are those who HAVE been thwarted, baffled and confused, from within the Church, not from without (paraphrased EGW counsel)! Wait, does that mean I just made a mini compilation? :)
I've considered the oft repeated statements that "many changes" were made to her work, I see little actual evidence of that though. She personally approved of the corrections, changes, whatever one might call them, to the 1911 Great Controversy, for instance. Its a good edition, I also like her earlier work that led up the 1911 edition. If I could only pick one, to publish, to circulate, it would be the 1911. Not MY personal favorite, but its a good work. Edited and over edited is largely how one views the work done to any given book. For instance, I don't have a problem with the many and varied smaller editions of the Great Controversy, they have their place. The Waldenses were pretty tickled to have a chapter from the bible, or perhaps a larger section, but it was unthinkable they might secure the entire bible! In this way, I see some of our smaller, "heavily edited" books have their place, caution is certainly advised. For the serious student, I prefer to go to the original sources.
The changes to Uriah Smiths book, in the 1940's, were substantial and to me, baffling. BUT, even at that, I see value in the 1940's edition of Daniel and the Revelation. As it were, one "reading through a glass darkly" compared to his original work, but still, better than having not having his book at all.
I don't know what you think of "verbal inspiration" as it concerns her writing, I believe in thought inspiration. Daniel, John the revelator, all the others, wrote about what was revealed to them. Often, in their own words, sometimes quoting an angel, etc. I leave room for sometimes being inspired or directed to write certain portions in a more exacting manner. But the bulk of their work was simply reporting what they had seen, been told or was revealed to them, in their own words. And often, they had to study their own words and writings to learn more about what HAD been revealed they had just written about. Inspiration is a marvelous thing, I don't believe we fully understand how it works.
And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live. Deuteronomy 8:3
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Matthew 4:4
So I believe that every word in the Bible is God's.
Same goes with Ellen White (when under inspiration).
Well, I'm not sure what that means, "every word in the bible is Gods". And by extension, we could include EGW in that (agreed, when under inspiration).
I would say it like, "Every word in the bible is approved and authorized by God" as written by His pen man, at times, in their own choosing of the words. Words they were comfortable using, human language, descriptions of things seen or revealed they could barely comprehend. Trying to compare it to something the people of their time (and ours) could relate to.
Balaam is an interesting example of what I think is direct "dictation" though. He tried to curse Israel and could not. Instead, he ended up providing a beautiful prophecy of Christ. Words he would not have chosen on his own accord in that instance!
On topic: When Ellen White was asked if Uriah Smith was inspired when writing Daniel and the Revelation, she didn't answer the question. She told the fellow asking he could answer it for himself, she would not. But she also said Uriah Smith was Gods pen man! I don't know what to make of this, I will let others answer the question...
The words in the bible are Gods words, does that mean or suggest "dictation" word for word, from God to the authors? Whereas, "A prophets words are approved and authorized by God" means or suggests (to me) that the author was selecting (in most cases) words he (or her) was personally familiar with. Humanity working with Divinity, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. When Ellen White quoted an angel, she placed the exact words spoken to her in "quotes". This alone strongly suggests to me that when not directly quoting a heavenly source, she was choosing her own words.
In "Sketches from the Life of Paul" (I really like that book) and other works, the charge of plagiarism is lodged against her, I don't see it that as a problem. Considering the time in which she lived this was fairly common among authors, to borrow words, phrases from another's work. Today, in a more strict and a much more legal society this is highly frowned on. Where she found another authors work who wrote a particular passage that was entirely accurate and well written she would use it. Such was often the case with "Sketches from the life of Paul". She knew, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, what to use and what to leave out. Her words, regardless of an original earthly source, were approved, authorized and indeed, "inspired" by our Lord. Now for those that do believe inspiration is a more strict, even formal, form of dictation, word for word, I'm OK with that. I see a certain beauty in Divinity working with Humanity as it concerns inspiration.
I'm writing a book on Daniel and Revelation and in my comments, on any given verse, I am using a wide range of words and phrases from other authors!! Mostly from Uriah Smith, some from Haskell, other pioneers and some from modern authors. Where they have summed up particularly well the meaning of a verse, in a short concise manner, I have used it. I have no plans to credit anybody, to preserve the book in its smallest, simplest form and keep the focus on the verses, not a list of "authors" and "credits". And knowing this some of my colleagues, predominately those with letters after their name, have taken offense. They say it is not right for me to do this, it is plagiarism. But here's the thing, "water off a ducks back", as far as I'm concerned. I will not be using my own name as author, I have no plans to sell the book and personally make a profit (were that even possible), I seek not the accolades of man, I wish to remain anonymous. I plan to fund the publishing myself. I am writing this book because Sister White said it should be written and nobody has done it. I am hardly qualified as an author, as Ellen White no doubt felt when she first started writing. But she was called to write, inspired to write, on a whole different level than myself. But I to am called to write, to answer her call, which I see as an inspired call from God, and so I write. The book will follow very closely to what Uriah Smith and our pioneers held to from about 1865 well into the 20th century. Which, without doubt, will inspire a lot of controversy as that is NOT the popular view today.
Such a book has not been written because for the last 100 years we have been arguing over just what Daniel and Revelation even mean! This is madness, its literally Babylon, confusion. The pioneers were not confused on these issues, so what happened? Well now, that's another book!
Quotes on what the prophetess had to say about Uriah Smith and especially his book, will follow.
"The statement is made, 'I know her works are not inspired; for I have seen manuscripts revised for the press. She quotes sometimes from history; are all historians inspired?' . . . But who has ever claimed that her words were inspired? Where or when has such a thing ever been intimated?" {ND UrS, QUAN 1.2}
Regarding this statement one questioner wrote: "Is not a word a sign of an idea? how then can an idea be inspired, and the signs that transfer the idea be uninspired?" To this Elder Smith replied in the issue for March 13, 1888: {ND UrS, QUAN 1.3}
"If there was but one word by which an idea could be expressed, this would be so; but when there are perhaps a hundred ways of expressing the same idea, the case becomes very different. Of course, if the Holy Spirit should give a person words to write, he would be obliged to use those very words without change; but when simply a scene or view is presented before a person, and no language is given, he would be at liberty to describe it in his own words, as might seem best to him to express the truth in the case. And, if having written it out once, a better way of expressing it should occur to him, it would be perfectly legitimate for him to scratch out all he had written, and write it over again, keeping strictly to the ideas and facts which had been shown him. And in the second writing there would be the divinely communicated idea just as much as in the first, while neither case could it be said that the words employed were dictated by the Holy Spirit, but were left to the judgement of the individual himself. {ND UrS, QUAN 1.4}
That is kind of funny about Uriah Smith writing on Ellen White's words being inspired or not, as he himself was never inspired, and no one alive today has either in the sense of writing the words of God.
Many people like to talk about "dictate".
Here's what God says:
He who is the father of lies, blinds and deceives the world by sending his angels forth to speak for the apostles, and make it appear that they contradict what they wrote when on earth, which was dictated by the Holy Ghost. These lying angels make the apostles to corrupt their own teachings and declare them to be adulterated. By so doing he can throw professed Christians, who have a name to live and are dead, and all the world, into uncertainty about the word of God; for that cuts directly across his track, and is likely to thwart his plans. Therefore he gets them to doubt the divine origin of the Bible, and then sets up the infidel Thomas Paine, as though he was ushered into heaven when he died, and with the holy apostles whom he hated on earth, is united, and appears to be teaching the world.
I don't take her use of the words "dictated by the Holy Ghost" in a strictly formal and literal way, but that's just my opinion. It really comes down to how one interprets "inspiration".
Was Martin Luther inspired? Sister White speaks of angels at his side. Was William Miller inspired? Again, we have counsel about the angels visiting and opening Father Millers mind to the truth. When asked if our pioneers were "inspired" in their writings, and this would include Uriah Smith, her comment was that she "dare not" say they weren't! But she noted, they weren't inspired in the strictest sense. We know, for instance, Father Miller made mistakes, didn't accept the Sabbath and had other issues, yet I have no doubt he was "Gods penman", as was Luther.
But she noted that any one who may be Gods penman, Gods appointed "man of the hour" if you would, could err if he/she was not completely in harmony with God at any given time. In such a case he/she would weave into the work his/her own views. Even prophets are subject to this basic law of God. Nathan erred when he told David to build the temple, he spoke without first consulting the Lord. Prophets are held to a much higher standard than those men whom God may choose at any given time to be His penman. This is why Ellen White was very careful to say nothing, to write nothing, unless she had specific light on the subject.
Jones and Waggoner were certainly chosen of God for a special mission, to address the legalism trap the Church had fallen into. To bring in a balancing view of righteousness by faith, to expand Paul's views on the law. And James, fearing Paul had taken the subject to far, balanced Paul's view with the necessity of the law. In the end, Jones, Waggoner and even Smith made substantial mistakes. There was a time when their counsel could not be trusted, but I won't throw out David's biblical work because there was a time when HIS counsel could not be trusted either!
There has always been, always will be, a certain "tension" in spiritual truth. Which is it, faith or works? It is both of course, but one must constantly seek the proper balance. And that balance is different for you than it is for me. At any given time, place or circumstance. What appears to be "sin" to you, may not be "sin" to me! Open sin, no question violations of the law are in a different category, open sin must be dealt with by the Church if it reaches a certain level.
I have faith that Uriah Smiths counsel, posted by NB, is accurate and "inspired" counsel in this case. James Whites counsel must also be considered in similar light, he wasn't inspired, in the strictest sense, but he to was Gods pen man!
Do you not think that these men who have brought out the truth in the past were inspired of God?" I dare not say they were not led of God, for Christ leads into all truth; but when it comes to inspiration in the fullest sense of the word, I answer, No. I believe that God has given them a work to do, but if they are not fully consecrated to God at all times, they will weave self and their peculiar traits of character into what they are doing, and will put their mold upon the work, and fashion men in religious experience after their own pattern. It is dangerous for us to make flesh our arm. Counsels to Writers and Editors (34).
I conclude, from this, that we must be careful to "weigh the evidence" of counsel. It is consistent with what has come before? Does it build on established truth or does it tear it down? The balance here is that we must ever be aware of what IS "established truth"? We, the Church, have been wrong before, we could be wrong again. Doctrine is not established by popular vote or opinion. It is almost impossible for us to know at any given time if an author is or isn't consecrated to the Lord. Almost, but not entirely impossible! Those who whish to cast doubt on one of Gods penmen, often because their counsel disapproves of their already preconceived ideas and cherished opinions, will find a well stocked closet of "hooks" to hang their doubts on. This people often do to the prophets as well, not just those men chosen for a time and place by our Father.
a confession Prescott made in a letter he wrote to W.C. White, dated April 6, 1915:
I have noted what you have said about your mother's condition, although you neglected to enclose the statement which you mentioned. When I see these early believers, like your mother, my father, and Elder Olsen passing away so rapidly, and then think of how little has really been accomplished in seriously warning the whole world of the impending second advent, I am led to wonder whether any of us now connected with this movement will, after all, live to see the consummation. It is a serious question.
It seems to me that a large responsibility rests upon those of us who know that there are serious errors in our authorized books and yet make no special effort to correct them. The people and our average ministers trust us to furnish them with reliable statements, and they use our books as sufficient authority in their sermons, but we let them go on year after year asserting things which we know to be untrue. I cannot feel that this is right. It seems to me that we are betraying our trust and deceiving the ministers and people. It appears to me that there is much more anxiety to prevent a possible shock to some trustful people than to correct error.
Your letter indicates a desire on your part to help me, but I fear that it is a little late. The experience of the last six or eight years, and especially the things concerning which I talked with you, have had their effect on me in several ways. I have had some hard shocks to get over, and after giving the best of my life to this movement, I have little peace and satisfaction in connection with it, and I am driven to the conclusion that the only thing for me to do is to do quietly what I can do conscientiously and leave the others to go on without me. Of course this [is] far from a happy ending to my life-work, but this seams to be the best adjustment that I am able to make.The way your mother's writings have been handled and the false impressions concerning them, which is still fostered among the people, have brought great perplexity and trial to me. It seems to me that what amounts to deception, though probably not intentional, has been practiced in making some of her books, and that no serious effort has been made to disabuse the minds of the people of what was known to be their wrong view concerning her writings.
But it is no use to go into these matters. I have talked with you for years about them but it brings no change. I think, however, that we are drifting toward a crisis which will come sooner or later and perhaps sooner. A very strong feeling of reaction has already set in.
I won't spend a lot of time following the link you provided, but thanks for the nb.
The point is, in the letter posted here Prescott makes the claim of a "lot of errors" in our books, I believe this is misleading without clarification on what books and what errors! Sister White herself, and Willie White, noted there were "some" errors in many of our published books around the time frame of the late 1800's, early 1900's. Sister White noted they were MINOR and should NOT be magnified. They should be left to those specially appointed to handle them.
If Prescott had his way, there would have been substantial changes made in the Great Controversy, this Ellen White did not allow. She did allow, that is approve, a few minor changes (1911 edition). Another example has been a claim made that there were "many" errors in Uriah Smiths work. It turns out there were about thirty MINOR errors that were corrected. Errors such as we might have seen on this forum lately. With the idea that every word in the inspired writings was from God. Or would that be, every word in the inspired writings is approved and authorized by our Lord? A subtle, but potentially, big difference in how the sentence is structured.
The wholesale "slaughter" of Uriah Smiths book done in the 1940's is exactly what she cautioned about NOT doing! Changes so sweeping the end result would be to lessen their authority and cause our people to become confused and distrustful of the value of our books. And this has certainly been the case with Uriahs book SINCE its sweeping revision in the 1940's! As to the changes made to Uriahs book early on, about thirty minor changes, those changes had virtually no impact on our people or the power of the book at that time. If similar changes were made now (or in the 1940's) to the Conflict Series, this would be devastating to our people confidence in those books. Editing them to make them smaller, more readable, easier to understand for a class of people who are not good readers, who lack the ability to go "deep", I approve of. Because, I deal with these kinds of people everyday. People who are not good readers, or cannot read at all, or are very new to the faith. To some I would recommend "Humble Hero", a shorter, easier to read "Desire of Ages". To those who cannot read, I recommend (and have given to) an audio book. On CD or MP3 player. This is a wonderful gift, not to mention the blind!
I see very little changes in ANY of Ellen Whites books that represent a change in fundamental doctrines. Such changes may typically be found in her very early work. Like her position on the "shut door", what time to keep the Sabbath (sundown or 6 pm). As it concerns our books, like the Testimonies, the Conflict Series, etc. one is hard pressed to find any substantial error from early on in her life until her death. She was incredibly consistent through out.
Now if Prescott was making reference to Kelloggs book, "Living Temple", he was right! THAT book contained SO much error Sister White said we should not even read it in an attempt to find the errors. It is to subtle, to dangerous. As for myself, I hesitate to even name it, I would prefer to call it: That book which should remain unnamed that Kellogg wrote, or Kelloggs book, the one Sister White said don't read.
This reality transpires also from the minutes of the 1919 Bible Conferences:
A. G. Daniells: Well, now, which statement shall we take, the original or the revised?
B. L. House: My real difficulty is just here: Sister White did not write either the old edition or the revised, as I understand it.
A. G. Daniells: What do you mean by saying that she did not write either edition?
B. L. House: As I understand it, Elder J. N. Anderson prepared those historical quotations for the old edition, and Brother Robinson and Brother Crisler, Professor Prescott and others furnished the quotations for the new edition.Did she write the historical quotations in there?
W. W. Prescott: You are touching exactly the experience through which I went, personally, because you all know that I contributed something toward the revision of "Great Controversy." I furnished considerable material bearing upon that question.
A. G. Daniells: By request.
W. W. Prescott: Yes, I was asked to do it, and at first I said, "No, I will not do it. I know what it means." But I was urged into it. When I had gone over it with W. C. White, then I said, "Here is my difficulty. I have gone over this and suggested changes that ought to be made in order to correct statements. These changes have been accepted. My personal difficulty will be to retain faith on those things that I can not deal with on that basis." But I did not throw up the spirit of prophecy, and have not yet; but I have had to adjust my view of things. I will say to you, as a matter of fact, that the relation of those writings to this movement and to our work, is clearer and more consistent in my mind than it was then. But still you know what I am charged with. I have gone through the personal experience myself over that very thing that you speak of. If we correct it here and correct it there, how are we going to stand with it in the other places?
And now, guess what was one of the major sources of inspiration for the latter editions of GC?
W. W. Prescott: I do not want to charge anybody. But I do think great mistakes were madein that way. That is why I have made a distinction as I have. When I talked with W. C. White about it (and I do not know that he is an infallible authority), he told me frankly that when they got out "Great Controversy," if they did not find in her writings anything on certain chapters to make the historical connections, they took other books, like "Daniel and the Revelation," and used portions of them; and sometimes her secretaries, and sometimes she herself, would prepare a chapter that would fill the gap.
Do not state anything I have told you personally in regard to the matter of change in books. {Lt104-1899 (August 1, 1899) par. 8}
This is in a letter written to S.N. Haskell. Considering the stand that he took later on such issues as inspiration, ...
I have no doubt the translators for the bible had similar disputes and they didn't always get it right. I can see Luke suggesting to Paul that he change this or that sentence or word in his letter. There is no question the KJV contains mistakes. How do you deal with that and yet maintain every word is inspired by the Holy Spirit? Every word in Aramaic, or Greek or Latin, well which is it? How about the French or Chinese or Swedish editions of the KJV, how do they stack up? Along that line I do recall a pioneer commenting that a particular verse was rendered more accurately in a foreign language than it was in English.
One example of the changes made in Great Controversy was which, of three, bells she heard ringing in France? The angel didn't specify which of one of the three it might have been. Now it could be said that was left to her to figure out through her own historic research, or with the help of historic researchers. But it turns out even history isn't sure which one. The conclusion for me is: it's not relevant as to which of the three, a bell was rung. Many of the details concerned disputes along these lines.
But the really dangerous areas were where Prescott wanted to change times and dates that would have a major impact on the 2300 year prophecy, and Josiah Litchs Aug. 11. 1840 date concerning Turkey. She would not allow those changes. Now the debate about Josiah Litch and his dates have a major impact on the seven trumpets. IF we accept what Litch said, and I believe Sister White DID accept what he said, as noted in the G.C., THEN it substantially changes our current popular view on the trumpets. On this point I conclude: Our current popular view on the trumpets is wrong because we (or a lot of us) reject Litch. Sister White didn't, she maintained her position in spite of the pressure to change it. Prescott tried to open a can of worms that would have been devastating today, when its already bad enough.
God has especially protected His words, the bible, from being corrupted "to far", He has drawn a line in the sand, if you would, and said this far, no farther. Allowing a few hooks here and there. I believe the same can be said for Sister Whites work.
The Bible was hated, and efforts were made to rid the earth of the precious word of God. The Bible was forbidden to be read on pain of death, and all the copies of the holy Book which could be found were burned. But I saw that God had a special care for his word. He protected it. At different periods there were but a very few copies of the Bible in existence, yet God would not suffer his word to be lost. And in the last days, copies of the Bible were to be so multiplied that every family could possess it. I saw that when there were but a very few copies of the Bible, it was precious and comforting to the persecuted followers of Jesus. It was read in the most secret manner, and those who had this exalted privilege felt that they had had an interview with God, with his Son Jesus, and with his disciples. But this blessed privilege cost many of them their lives. If discovered, they were taken from reading the sacred Word to the chopping block, the stake, or to the dungeon to die from starvation. {1SG 109.1}
This problem of how to relate to inspired words is the biggest error ever accepted by the SDA church at large.
Until we believe the words in the Bible and SOP are God's words, I just don't see how we will stand when the tempest comes, because people will be saying this is nuanced and that is cultural and it's just a "tempest in a teapot".
This is why many people change SOP books now to make them "gender inclusive" and think they are doing God a favor.
Jesus said to live by "every word that proceeds from the mouth of God".
Ellen White wrote that what the apostles wrote was "dictated by the Holy Ghost.
Some people will not believe, though one rose from the dead. The bible, or the SOP. Compilation or original works. But not one sincere seeker of truth will be led astray by the minor mistakes found through incorrect interpretations, punctuation, wording, in any language, of the bible, or the SOP. I recognize that not all of these apparent mistakes are actually mistakes, they are crafted and executed on purpose. Some by those who knowingly seek to mislead others, and some by sincerely mistaken editors who think they are doing Gods work.
No matter what, some will always lean toward seeing the prophetess as merely stating her own opinions or questioning the bible for many and varied reasons. Recognizing the reality that there are mistakes, minor ones in the bible and the SOP, in our published articles, tracts, pamphlets, etc. is just being honest. Even the prophets were not infallible, no, not one. And some, recognizing this truth, magnify it, use it to cast doubt on the inspired writings and cause others to doubt as well. This, God has allowed, I don't know why, I just accept it.
believe in all sincerity the KJV bible and SOP originals... only truth will sanctify... every Word is inspired and has consistency throughout the entire book
if people refuse this truth, God will take it away from them, remove the candle
I believe every word is inspired, but I don't believe every word is formally and exactly dictated, in every case. I allow room for formal and exacting dictation in some cases. Like Balaam for example and Saul as well, there are other examples of dictation in the strictest sense. But I'm OK with those who may see it a different way or believe the inspired writings, every word, is dictated in the strictest sense. David wrote many wonderful songs, as recorded in the Psalms. I leave room for David exercising his God given gift of song writing without God specifically telling him every word to write. Above all, David was "inspired" by his love for, his experience with victory and defeat, his life's experiences in learning about God. At some point, David would be little more than a robot if every word was merely dictated.
And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the
earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.(Is. 51:16)
Do we believe this promise?
Does God And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand,plant the heavens andlay the foundations of the earth or not?
How about the first part of the promise?
Does God actually put words into the mouths of His servants? Did He do that at the Pentecost or not?
It is an historical fact that in both midnight cry and 1888 attempt to send the loud cry, words were given to God's servants. Let's have a look:
Midnight Cry
After an absence of five days, I returned home to Fairhaven in season for an evening meeting. My brethren were slow to believe our report respecting the new light. They believed they were right thus far, but the midnight cry was a strange doctrine to connect with Advent history. Sunday morning I attended the Advent meeting in New Bedford, some two miles distant. Bro. Hutchinson, from Canada, was preaching. He appeared much confused, and sat down, saying, "I can't preach." Eld. E. Macomber, who had returned with me from the camp-meeting, was in the desk with him. He arose, apparently much excited, saying, "Oh! I wish I could tell you what I have seen and heard, but I cannot," and down he sat also. I then arose from my seat in the congregation, saying, "I can!" andnever do I remember of having such freedom and flow of words, in all my religious experience.Words came like flowing water. As I sat down, a sister came to me across the hall, saying, "Bro. Bates, I want you to preach that same discourse to us this afternoon." Bro. Hutchinson was now relieved from all his stammering, and said, "If what Bro. Bates has said is true, I don't wonder he thought my preaching was like carpenter's chips." When the meeting closed the next evening,stammering tongues were loosed and the cry was sounding, "Behold, the Bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him!"Arrangements were quickly made for meetings, to spread the glad tidings all around.{1877 JW, LELJB 301.1}
1888 message
The House Committee on the District of Columbia heard the Breckenridge bill on February 18, 1890. Once again, Jones was a key witness, not only in arguing the bills unconstitutionality, but also in using its religious arguments against its authors. Always at his best when under pressure, he later claimed that it seemed as though the sentences he should speak were written on the wall, or suspended in the air before him.(From 1888 to Apostasy: The Case of A. T. Jones, by George R. Knight, p. 77)
I had no rest in spirit in the house of Brother Uriah. I have left the house saying to myself, It is a godless house. I have seen no less than four evil angels controlling members of the family. {Lt3-1869 (April 23, 1869) par. 12}
The powers of darkness are at work and are brought to bear more upon those who are engaged in advancing the interests of Gods cause. Satan will come in at every avenue, every spot that is not guarded. There will always be a work to do to defend the right and to condemn the wrong. I saw that Brother Smiths mind had been molded by his past experience in his connection with Sister Smith, that his sense of wrong is not acute. Satan would plant his hellish banner in his own house and in the office and he not perceive it, but think it was the banner of the cross of Christ. Brother Smiths position has been a defective one. God wants men who have spiritual eyesight, or they are good for nothing in His cause. {Lt10-1873 (May 14, 1873) par. 23}
"I feel very tender towards Elder Smith. My life-interest in the publishing work is bound up with his. He came to us as a young man, possessing talents that qualified him to stand in his lot and place as an editor. How I rejoice as I read his articles in the Review--so excellent, so full of spiritual truth. I thank God for them. I feel a strong sympathy for Elder Smith, and I believe that his name should always appear in the Review as the name of the leading editor. Thus God would have it. When, some years ago, his name was placed second, I felt hurt. When it was again, placed first I wept, and said, "Thank God." May it always be there, as God designs it shall be, while Elder Smith's right hand can hold a pen. And when the power of his hand fails, let his sons write at his dictation." Ellen G. White, letter 47, Feb. 5, 1902. {20MR 220.2}
In the Desire of Ages, Patriarchs and Prophets, and in Daniel and the Revelation, There is precious instruction. These books must be regarded as of special importance, and every effort should be made to get them to the people.- Letter 229,1903 {CM 123.2}
The light given was that Thoughts on Daniel and The Revelation, The Great Controversy, and Patriarchs and Prophets, would make their way. They contain the very message the people must have, the special light God had given His people. The angels of God would prepare the way for these books in the hearts of the people.- Special Instruction Regarding Royalties, p.7 (1899) {CM 123.3}
She placed Smiths book along side her own, connected it directly with The Great Controversy and Patriarchs and Prophets. There is no other author, living or dead, with the exception of the bible obviously, she connected directly with her own work. And like her own books, Uriah Smiths book is the ONLY ONE she said would remain of interest until the close of probation. Haskell, Miller, all other authors will fall by the wayside at some point, but the bible, her books, and Smiths book will still be cherished, searched and the counsel carefully considered even when the Saints have fled the cities and are in hiding.
God chastens and rebukes those whom He loves, as He did for David. David's character was certainly attacked, and with good reason, he made some very serious mistakes. But still, his work endures and like Smiths, will still be of interest and value right up until the close of probation. I know of no author, besides Ellen White, that could be said of.
"Everything that can be done should be done to circulate Thoughts on Daniel and Revelation. I know of no other book that can take the place of this one. It is God's helping hand." MS 76, 1901. {PM 356.2}
"The interest in Daniel and the Revelation is to continue as long as probationary time shall last. God used the author of this book as a channel through which to communicate lightto direct minds to the truth. Shall we not appreciate this light, which points us to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, our King?" {1MR 63.1}
Powerful statements in support of Smiths book. And there are more like them. Taken in their totality, weighing the evidence, considering the context, I had no choice but to accept Smiths book as containing the truth on the varied and many subjects found in Daniel and in the book of Revelation. There is not ONE group of modern preachers, authors, theologians that agree with their varied and different views on these two books. There is only confusion, and this has been the case for over a 100 years.
The pioneers were not confused, they understood and accepted to a man Smiths book as the correct interpretation of Daniel and Revelation. And that includes James White, who in 1854 declared the king of the north was whatever power controlled Syria! In his day, that was Turkey. He went further, whatever power in the future may control Syria, WILL be the king of the north. This was so well understood, so well accepted among our pioneers it was defacto the official position of the Church. And it continued to be the official position until about the 1940's, when the change began to take place. "Books of a new order were written", new ideas were offered, some said we should return to what we believed in 1844. There has been nothing but confusion since.
IF, at some point, the ISIS Caliphate survives, continues to grow and controls Syria, THEN, it will be the king of the north. And what does Daniel 11:45 say the king of the north will do? Attack Jerusalem, conquer it and setup the tents and palaces of its government! An Islamic HQ while Jerusalem burns and the streets run red with the blood of Jews. Now WHAT IF, the POPE, through his influence, causes the king of the north to "come to his end" because NONE shall help him? Would not the POPE be seen as a "savior", riding in on a white horse (if you would) and saving mankind from the bad guys? Wow, all the world would wonder after that all right....
I don't know that the Pope, or anybody, will do this, its just one of many possibilities. The most likely possibility is that king of the north comes to his end because Jesus returns and destroys ALL earthly kingdoms to setup His eternal kingdom.
Words Dictated by the Holy Spirit.--I speak to the workers, young and old, who are handling our books, and especially to those who are canvassing for the book that is now doing its errand of mercy: [CHRIST'S OBJECT LESSONS.] Exemplify in the life the lessons given by Christ in His Sermon on the Mount. This will make a deeper impression, and have a more lasting influence upon minds, than will the sermons given from the pulpit. You may not be able to speak eloquently to those you desire to help; but if you speak modestly, hiding self in Christ, your words will be dictated by the Holy Spirit; and Christ, with whom you are cooperating, will impress the heart. {PM 302.2}
The lives recorded in the Bible are authentic histories of actual individuals. From Adam down through successive generations to the times of the apostles we have a plain, unvarnished account of what actually occurred and the genuine experience of real characters. It is a subject of wonder to many that inspired history should narrate in the lives of good men facts that tarnish their moral characters. Infidels seize upon these sins with great satisfaction and hold their perpetrators up to ridicule. The inspired writers did not testify to falsehoods to prevent the pages of sacred history being clouded by the record of human frailties and faults. The scribes of God wrote as they were dictated by the Holy Spirit, having no control of the work themselves. They penned the literal truth, and stern, forbidding facts are revealed for reasons that our finite minds cannot fully comprehend. {4T 9.1}
It is one of the best evidences of the authenticity of the Scriptures that the truth is not glossed over nor the sins of its chief characters suppressed. Many will urge that it is an easy matter to relate what has occurred in an ordinary life. But it is a proved fact that it is a human impossibility to give an impartial history of a contemporary; and it is almost as difficult to narrate, without deviating from the exact truth, the story of any person or people with whose career we have become acquainted. The human mind is so subject to prejudice that it is almost impossible for it to treat the subject impartially. Either the faults of the person under review stand out in glaring relief, or his virtues shine with undimmed luster, just as the writer is prejudiced for or against him. However impartial the historian may design to be, all critics will agree that it is a very difficult matter to be truly so. {4T 9.2}
But divine unction, lifted above the weaknesses of humanity, tells the simple, naked truth. How many biographies have been written of faultless Christians, who, in their ordinary home life and church relations, shone as examples of immaculate piety. No blemish marred the beauty of their holiness, no fault is recorded to remind us that they were common clay and subject to the ordinary temptations of humanity. Yet had the pen of inspiration written their histories, how different would they have appeared. There would have been revealed human weaknesses, struggles with selfishness, bigotry, and pride, hidden sins perhaps, and the continual warfare between the spirit and the flesh. Even private journals do not reveal on their pages the writer's sinful deeds. Sometimes the conflicts with evil are recorded, but usually only when the right has gained the victory. But they may contain a faithful account of praiseworthy acts and noble endeavors; this, too, when the writer honestly intends to keep a faithful journal of his life. It is next to a human impossibility to lay open our faults for the possible inspection of our friends. {4T 10.1}
Had our good Bible been written by uninspired persons, it would have presented quite a different appearance and would have been a discouraging study to erring mortals, who are contending with natural frailties and the temptations of a wily foe. But as it is, we have a correct record of the religious experiences of marked characters in Bible history. Men whom God favored, and to whom He entrusted great responsibilities, were sometimes overcome by temptation and committed sins, even as we of the present day strive, waver, and frequently fall into error. But it is encouraging to our desponding hearts
to know that through God's grace they could gain fresh vigor to again rise above their evil natures; and, remembering this, we are ready to renew the conflict ourselves. {4T 10.2}
The murmurings of ancient Israel and their rebellious discontent, as well as the mighty miracles wrought in their favor and the punishment of their idolatry and ingratitude, are recorded for our benefit. The example of ancient Israel is given as a warning to the people of God, that they may avoid unbelief and escape His wrath. If the iniquities of the Hebrews had been omitted from the Sacred Record, and only their virtues recounted, their history would fail to teach us the lesson that it does. {4T 11.1}
Infidels and lovers of sin excuse their crimes by citing the wickedness of men to whom God gave authority in olden times. They argue that if these holy men yielded to temptation and committed sins, it is not to be wondered at that they, too, should be guilty of wrongdoing; and intimate that they are not so bad after all, since they have such illustrious examples of iniquity before them. {4T 11.2}
The principles of justice required a faithful narration of facts for the benefit of all who should ever read the Sacred Record. Here we discern the evidences of divine wisdom. We are required to obey the law of God, and are not only instructed as to the penalty of disobedience, but we have narrated for our benefit and warning the history of Adam and Eve in Paradise, and the sad results of their disobedience of God's commands. The account is full and explicit. The law given to man in Eden is recorded, together with the penalty accruing in case of its disobedience. Then follows the story of the temptation and fall, and the punishment inflicted upon our erring parents. Their example is given us as a warning against disobedience, that we may be sure that the wages of sin is death, that God's retributive justice never fails, and that He exacts from His creatures a strict regard for His commandments. When the law was proclaimed at Sinai, how definite was the penalty annexed, how sure was punishment to follow the transgression of that law, and how plain are the cases recorded in evidence of that fact! {4T 11.3}
The pen of inspiration, true to its task, tells us of the sins that overcame Noah, Lot, Moses, Abraham, David, and Solomon, and that even Elijah's strong spirit sank under temptation during his fearful trial. Jonah's disobedience and Israel's idolatry are faithfully recorded. Peter's denial of Christ, the sharp contention of Paul and Barnabas, the failings and infirmities of the prophets and apostles, are all laid bare by the Holy Ghost, who lifts the veil from the human heart. There before us lie the lives of the believers, with all their faults and follies, which are intended as a lesson to all the generations following them. If they had been without foible they would have been more than human, and our sinful natures would despair of ever reaching such a point of excellence. But seeing where they struggled and fell, where they took heart again and conquered through the grace of God, we are encouraged, and led to press over the obstacles that degenerate nature places in our way. {4T 12.1}
God has ever been faithful to punish crime. He sent His prophets to warn the guilty, denounce their sins, and pronounce judgment upon them. Those who question why the word of God brings out the sins of His people in so plain a manner for scoffers to deride and saints to deplore, should consider that it was all written for their instruction, that they may avoid the evils recorded and imitate only the righteousness of those who served the Lord. {4T 12.2}
With what fidelity do these words portray the present condition of the church: "Knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked." Messages of warning, dictated by the Holy Spirit, are borne by the servants of God, defects of character are presented before the erring; but they say: "That does not represent my case. I do not accept the message you bring. I am doing the best I can. I believe the truth." {5T 101.4}
what to write = 18 SOP hits
The revelation of Christ to John is a wonderful, dignified, exalted, solemn message. To present this message with decided emphasis, demands all the talents of capabilities that God has given to men. When John received it, He was worked [upon] by the Holy Spirit, for Christ Himself came from heaven and told him what to write. {UL 310.5}
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
divers manners means multiple or several manners or ways. For example symbols, types, dreams, visions, audibly, inspiring the mind, dictating or telling what to write, personally writing with Own finger, speaking in Person, etc .
Every good word, thought, action, deed, help given to someone, in every case, without exception, these actions always trace back to our Father. The very atmosphere we breath is filled with grace, ALL good things come from Him, to His Son and from Him to His appointed agencies for the benefit and protection, not only of man, but for the Universe. For ALL heavenly intelligences'.
It is in this sense such things are dictated by the Father to humankind, who are entirely incapable of doing anything that can honor Him in any way, without first being given as a gift to them from His throne. Ellen White understood this, she grasped this concept in its proper balance and relationship of humanity working with divinity. This is why even when she copied another authors work, as she did many times, she recognized those words as being dictated to those other authors as verily from the throne of God. When the type setting needed to be reset for the Great Controversy, 1911 edition, she wanted to do everything possible to make it as perfect in every way as she could. She recognized that the earlier editions were not perfect in every way, statements could be made clearer and she enlisted the support of her assistants and the counsel of the brethren to undertake this work. Always being careful to not let false or misleading concepts tarnish the work. And in the end, "every word" was dictated by the Holy Spirit.
Some, as we seem to see in this thread, strongly disagreed with changing ANY word, or enhancing ANY part of the work. There "argument" was that the Holy Spirit never makes a mistake and every single word is either inspired or the prophet must be false. And those who have failed to grasp the reality of how dictation works and insist and demand that every single word, when first written, if it needs revision in any way, it must be from some source other than the Holy Spirit. This will lead many to loose their faith in the testimonies and make ship wreck of their spiritual journey.
Studies, you wrote: "she recognized those words as being dictated to those other authors as verily from the throne of God."
To me, that is getting pretty close to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.
The facts of the matter are, as far as we know, only one person since the days of John have been inspired in the sense that their words were given by God.
Of course I realize that God can breathe his Spirit on pastors and workers etc. yet, in the special sense of being God's spokesperson, only Ellen White has done that in the last 1900 years or so.
The truth about the changes to the SOP are very mysterious, and underhanded, same as with most all of Satan's actions.
The facts are that no one was authorized to change a single word in what Ellen White wrote, but the committee in 1883 publicly stated in the Review that they were going to "remove the imperfections in the books". That should be a huge red flag of warning to anyone who loves God's words.
Were you aware that the 1888 Great Controversy says that the Roman Catholic Church is not part of Babylon, but the 1911 edition says it is?
That's because they got ideas and responses from many people to change the books, and Prescott's ideas were often integrated into the 1911 book.
Please read the entire 1919 Bible Conference minutes to find out what the main point under discussion became.
She herself selected many different passages from many different sources from other authors works. Sketches from the Life of Paul is probably the most compelling example but it is also true of some of her other books as well. Since she chose to use the words from other authors, are those words inspired just as much as if they were her own words? I think they are, then it follows those words, from other authors used by her, are approved and authorized by the Holy Spirit.
She herself stated there WERE a number of mistakes in some of our books that had been in publication for years. Who should find these mistakes? Who and how were they to be corrected? She didn't have the time nor the expertise to undertake such a task and so she reasonably appointed others to this work. Where changes were to be made to concepts, important dates, issues that would change the meaning, these would be brought to her attention and she personally would approve the change.
Worthy of note is her counsel that concerning this work we SHOULD NOT magnify these mistakes being corrected by those appointed to that work. To suggest that this work has been carried on "in a corner", as Paul would state it, or in an underhanded and mysterious way is doing precisely what she counseled not to do! Such efforts to disparage her books and her work will, and have, continue to lead people into confusion, lessen respect for the work and in the end make her books of little or no value. While at the same time, proudly stating how her work is inspired!
This is what she specifically sought to avoid. I have complete confidence in the 1911 Great Controversy edition. While I also find wisdom and take comfort in the earlier editions of her work. I will no engage in casting doubt and shrouding in mystery her later works, edited by committees and every word approved by her.