Hmmm, that's an interesting take on those quotes NB.

I've seen them before, thought about them, I have never been clear on what she is saying here as it concerns the apocrypha. At this point in my growth, I don't think I need to study or concern myself with the apocrypha, that could change. I don't know what to make of some our early pioneers quoting from it. That was then, this is now? That reasoning COULD be applied to many different things our pioneers did in the early stages of developing the truth and growing in knowledge. Some things they kept, some things they threw out, some things they modified as the light grew brighter. No big surprise, the reformers did the same thing, grow, change, build upon that which came before or embraced that which had been lost for a time.

Seems to me that James White, as you mentioned, referenced the apocrypha very early in the Church. Question: Did he ever reference it in the later years? Particularly after, say the 1860's? That time frame because by then the pioneers had worked out much more detail, organized in '63 and they had substantially more light than in the '50s.

Other pioneers that referenced it at any point in time?

apocrypha = 8 SOP hits 

#1. With a little context 

April 1, 1872 Life of Christ.--No. 2.

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By Ellen G. White.

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     Christ retained a perfect identity of character, although surrounded by unfavorable influences, and placed in every variety of circumstances. Nothing supernatural occurred during the first thirty years of his life at Nazareth which would attract the attention of the people to himself. The apocraphy [apocrypha] of the New Testament attempts to supply the silence of the Scriptures in reference to the early life of Christ, by giving a fancy sketch of his childhood years. These writers relate wonderful incidents and miracles, which characterized his childhood, and distinguished him from other children. They relate fictitious tales, and frivolous miracles, which they say he wrought, attributing to Christ the senseless and needless display of his divine power, and falsifying his character by attributing to him acts of revenge, and deeds of mischief, which were cruel and ridiculous.  {YI, April 1, 1872 par. 1} 

     In what marked contrast is the history of Christ, as recorded by the evangelists, which is beautiful in its natural simplicity, with these unmeaning stories, and fictitious tales. They are not at all in harmony with his character. They are more after the order of the novels that are written, which have no foundation in truth; but the characters delineated are of fancy creating.  {YI, April 1, 1872 par. 2}  

     The life of Christ was distinguished from the generality of children. His strength of moral character, and his firmness, ever led him to be true to his sense of duty, and to adhere to the principles of right, from which no motive, however powerful, could move him. Money or pleasure, applause or censure, could not purchase or flatter him to consent to a wrong action. He was strong to resist temptation, wise to discover evil, and firm to abide faithful to his convictions.  {YI, April 1, 1872 par. 3}  

     The wicked and unprincipled would flatter and portray the pleasures of sinful indulgences; but his strength of principle was strong to resist the suggestions of Satan. His penetration had been cultivated, that he could discern the voice of the tempter. He would not swerve from duty to obtain the favor of any. He would not sell his principles for human praise, or to avoid reproach and the envy and hatred of those who were enemies to righteousness and true goodness.  {YI, April 1, 1872 par. 4}  

     The life of Christ was passed in simplicity and purity. He possessed patience which nothing could ruffle, and truthfulness which would not be turned aside. His willing hands and feet were ever ready to serve others, and lighten the burdens of his parents. His wisdom was great, but it was child-like, and increased with his years. His childhood possessed peculiar gentleness, and marked loveliness. His character was full of beauty, and unsullied perfection.  {YI, April 1, 1872 par. 5}  

     It was said of him, "The child grew, waxed strong in spirit, was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon him." Important and useful lessons may be drawn from the life of Christ. What examples for parents in educating their children! And what a pattern we here find for all children and youth!  {YI, April 1, 1872 par. 6}  

     If children would have firm constitutions they must live naturally. The path of obedience is exalted by the Majesty of Heaven coming to the earth, and condescending himself to become a little child, and living simply and naturally, as children should live, submitting to restraint and privation, giving youth an example of faithful industry, showing them by his own life that body and soul are in harmony with natural laws.  {YI, April 1, 1872 par. 7}  

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#2 - 7.    MR No. 1148 - Ellen G. White and the Apocrypha

     [A STATEMENT PREPARED BY ARTHUR L. WHITE IN 1969 AND NOW REQUESTED FOR CLASSROOM USE BY RON JOLLIFF, RELIGION TEACHER AT SOUTHWESTERN ADVENTIST COLLEGE. THE PARAGRAPH FROM MANUSCRIPT 4, 1850, HAS NOT HERETOFORE BEEN RELEASED.--R. W. OLSON.]  {15MR 65.1}  

     WHILE ELLEN G. WHITE IS NOT KNOWN TO HAVE QUOTED FROM THE APOCRYPHA THERE IS SOME DOCUMENTATION OF THE EARLY YEARS WHICH MAY BE OF INTEREST IN CONNECTION WITH A STUDY OF HER RELATIONSHIP TO IT. JAMES WHITE, IN HIS PAMPHLET, A WORD TO THE LITTLE FLOCK, IN HIS FIRST ARTICLE ENTITLED "THE SEVEN LAST PLAGUES" INCLUDES TWO REFERENCES TO THE APOCRYPHA.  {15MR 65.2}  

     PAGE 2: "THE SEED IS ROTTEN UNDER THEIR CLODS, THE GARNERS ARE 

    LAID DESOLATE, THE BARNS ARE BROKEN DOWN, FOR THE CORN IS 

    WITHERED."--SEE JOEL 1:15-18; JEREMIAH 30:23, 24; DANIEL 12:1; HABAKKUK 3:12, 13; ZEPHANIAH 1:17, 18; 2:10-13.  {15MR 65.3} 

     PAGE 3: "I WILL BRING THEM (THE SAINTS) WITH A MIGHTY HAND AND A 

    STRETCHED-OUT ARM, AND SMITE EGYPT WITH PLAGUES AS BEFORE," ETC.

    --2 ESDRAS 15:11.  {15MR 65.4} 

     AS HE FURNISHED SCRIPTURE REFERENCES TO TWO ELLEN G. WHITE VISIONS, INCORPORATED IN A WORD TO THE LITTLE FLOCK, HE ALSO INCORPORATED SOME REFERENCES TO THE APOCRYPHA. HIS EXPLANATION WHICH PRECEDES THE PUBLICATION OF THE FIRST VISION STATES:  {15MR 65.5}  

          "THE FOLLOWING VISION WAS PUBLISHED IN THE DAY STAR, 

     MORE THAN A YEAR AGO. BY THE REQUEST OF FRIENDS, IT IS RE-PUBLISHED 

     IN THIS LITTLE WORK, WITH SCRIPTURE REFERENCES, FOR THE BENEFIT 

     OF THE LITTLE FLOCK."--A WORD TO THE 

     LITTLE FLOCK, P. 13  {15MR 65.6}  

     AT THE BOTTOM OF PAGES 15 AND 17 THERE ARE REFERENCES KEYED TO THE E. G. WHITE TEXT, ONE REFERENCE TO 2 ESDRAS 2:43, (P. 15) AND THE OTHER TO 2 ESDRAS 2:19, (P. 17). 

                                  -66-  {15MR 65.7}  

     IT IS CLEAR THAT JAMES WHITE SAW SOME SIMILARITIES BETWEEN WHAT ELLEN WHITE WROTE AND SOME THINGS HE HAD READ IN ESDRAS, AND SO USED THESE REFERENCES AS HE DID SCRIPTURE REFERENCES WHICH HE SAYS HE SUPPLIED.  {15MR 66.1} 

                             THE HIDDEN BOOK 

     IN A REPORT SIGNED BY THREE EARLY BELIEVERS REFERENCE IS MADE TO THE HIDDEN BOOK AS ELLEN WHITE UTTERED CERTAIN WORDS IN VISION. HERE IS THE ACCOUNT:  {15MR 66.2} 

          "AT ANOTHER TIME AT A MEETING HELD AT BROTHER CURTIS' 

     IN TOPSHAM, MAINE, SHE WAS TAKEN OFF IN VISION, AND AROSE TO 

     HER FEET, TOOK THE LARGE FAMILY BIBLE FROM THE TABLE, AND HELD 

     IT ON HER HAND SOME TIME AT AN ANGLE OF FORTY-FIVE DEGREES, AND 

     SAID THE HIDDEN BOOK WAS NOT THERE. WHEN SOME ONE ASKED IF THE 

     APOCRYPHA WAS NOT IN THE BIBLE, BROTHER CURTIS REMARKED IT WAS 

     NOT. SHE TALKED SOMETIME ABOUT THE HIDDEN BOOK. NO ONE KNEW 

     BUT BRO. CURTIS FAMILY THAT THE APOCRAPHA [APOCRYPHA] WAS NOT THERE. 

                                             MRS. S. HOWLAND 

                                             REBECCA HOWLAND WINSLOW 

                                             FRANCES HOWLAND LUNT"  {15MR 66.3}  

     IN THE REPORT OF A VISION GIVEN TO ELLEN WHITE AT OSWEGO, NEW YORK ON JANUARY 11, 1850, AND CARRYING A COPYING DATE OF JANUARY 28, 1850, ELLEN WHITE MAKES A REFERENCE TO THE HIDDEN BOOK. HER DESCRIPTION OF WHAT WAS SHOWN TO HER IN THE VISION CONTAINS MANY ITEMS AND AS ON FILE COMPRISES FOUR AND A QUARTER TYPE-WRITTEN PAGES. NEAR THE CLOSE OF HER STATEMENT WE FIND THESE WORDS:  {15MR 66.4} 

          "All, all who keep the commandments of God, will enter in 

     through the gates into the city and have right to the tree of 

     life and ever be in the presence of that lovely Jesus whose 

     countenance shines brighter than the sun at noon day. I then 

     saw the word of God pure and unadulterated, and that we must 

     answer for the way we received the truth proclaimed from that 

     word. I saw that it had been a hammer to break the flinty 

     heart in pieces, and a fire to consume the dross and tin, that 

     the heart might be pure and holy. I saw that the Apocrypha was 

     the hidden book, and that the wise of these last days should 

     understand it. I saw that the Bible was the standard book, that 

     will judge us at the last day. I saw that heaven would be cheap 

     enough, and that nothing was too dear to sacrifice for Jesus, 

     and that we must give all to enter the kingdom."--Manuscript 4, 

     1850, (A copy of E. G. White's Vision which she had at Oswego, N.Y.) 

                                -67- 

ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS REFERENCE IS MADE TO THE APOCRYPHA IN ARTICLES IN THE REVIEW AND HERALD. THESE ARE OF INTEREST, AND COPY OF THE MATERIALS IS ATTACHED.  {15MR 66.5} 

     THE FULL MEANING AND SIGNIFICANCE OF THE E. G. WHITE STATEMENT OF 1850 IS NOT CLEARLY SEEN. IT SHOULD BE OBSERVED THAT ELLEN WHITE MAKES NO REFERENCE TO THE APOCRYPHA AT ANY TIME IN HER WRITINGS IN THE SUBSEQUENT 65 YEARS. IF WHAT WE HAVE IS A CORRECT COPY OF WHAT SHE WROTE, AND AT TIMES THERE IS SOME UNCERTAINTY AS TO THE ACCURACY OF SOME OF THE STATEMENTS BEARING THESE EARLY DATES, AT NO TIME SUBSEQUENT TO THAT, DID SHE HAVE OCCASION TO CALL THE ATTENTION OF THE CHURCH TO THE APOCRYPHA TO URGE ITS READING OR TO EXPLAIN ITS SIGNIFICANCE. THIS BEING THE CASE, OUR COUNSEL WOULD BE TO GIVE THE MATTER A MINIMUM OF ATTENTION. SURELY THE SILENCES IN HER PUBLISHED WRITINGS ON THIS SUBJECT CARRY SIGNIFICANCE. 

                                   ARTHUR L. WHITE 

Ellen G. White Estate Washington, D. C. Release Date June 6, 1985  {15MR 67.1}  

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I have, for some time, been cautious with my consideration of "Word to the little Flock". Some say it is an inspired work, but I disagree with that. Ellen Whites comments and contributions are one thing, but not so with the other authors of that work. However led of God they were or may have been, they were subject to error in that work.

The interesting thing I find about EGW's work, all of it, is that she wrote only what she was told to write. She was silent, at times and for years, on many different subjects. I see in her work a consistent golden chain of truth from beginning to end on all the important aspects of doctrine. Whether that chain includes silence or comment.

She was silent in regards to Uriah Smiths views on the trinity, for instance. And of course Brother Smith echoed the position of the majority of our pioneers. What then are we to make of this silence? Does it mean she supported his views or not? That's an important doctrine, I believe if Smith and our pioneers were wrong on this point, she would have been compelled to say something. If they were partially wrong, or somewhat confused, then perhaps silence was needful. As for myself, I conclude that Smith and the others were, for the most part, not only correct on their position but when properly understood also in complete harmony with Sister Whites later comments in Desire of Ages concerning Christ's nature.

As for herself, she simply made no comment on the subject for many years.

"Word to the little flock" does indeed contain some error, caution is advised on drawing hard and fast conclusions from some of the statements therein. It was needful at the time, it had its place, it was God approved for its purpose and time.

One must be careful to strike a balance in having an honest conversation about our printed works and yet not rendering them of "little effect" or discouraging confidence in the same!

The issue that is presented on this web site includes a critique following the paper itself that clarifies some of the potential confusion that could lead to wrongful conclusions made by other than Sister White.

The point is: Can we have full, absolute confidence in any pioneers writing outside of Ellen White? One must exercise caution in this regard in all such publications.

Back to your question... James White seems to indicate, or some have seen it this way, that the wicked hear the voice of God announcing the time of Jesus' return and thus "hide themselves". Its a minor point, all things considered, and should not be magnified. And this is true of many of our long published works which contain minor error, typos, incorrect historical facts of a minor nature. These should be left to the men appointed to correct these things and they should not be magnified by those not appointed to this work!

As it concerns her vision of the planet with seven moons, which Bates and others took to mean some planet in our solar system, this was a mistake on Bates part. But I see it as necessary for Bates to believe that at the time. Just as it was necessary for Father Miller to have a mistake on his 1843 chart, this was in Gods will.

Some, in fact many, today say that James Whites position on the king of the north being the papacy was a "pillar" of our faith in the early days and cannot be moved. I don't see James early opinion as a pillar at all. Fact is, James changed his "opinion" on that in the 1860's and agreed with the findings of the bible study group who, for some ten years, dug deeply into Daniel, and Revelation and concluded Turkey was the king of the north! James and virtually ALL our pioneers believed that, Uriah Smith simply reported that position in his book. However, James White later changed his view again on the king of the north in the 1870's! Uriah Smith is another example of caution advised, considering time, place, paper, article or book. Add to that list A.T. Jones, Waggoner, many others. All men led of God, blessed by him, with important instructions, that at some point also dealt in error.

ONLY in the prophet(s) can we place our full faith and even then, time and place must be considered! Prophets are human after all, they can choose to follow or not follow God at any point in their life..

Was it a mistake for James to reference the apocrypha? Sister White had no comment directly relating to that.

start a thread on U. smith I have much to share about what she says about him