Let us do a little seeing into this from scripture
Pr8:22 ¶ The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. (possessed is ganah below)
Pr8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
7069. qanah
hnq qanah kaw-naw'
a primitive root; to erect, i.e. create; by extension, to procure, especially by purchase (causatively, sell); by implication to own:--attain, buy(-er), teach to keep cattle, get, provoke to jealousy, possess(-or), purchase, recover, redeem, X surely, X verily.
Then Isaiah clears up the reason of the extended one, that He, Yahweh the Father and the why of Yahweh of Hosts. It is simple reasoning, Yahweh our Father saw He would need a Redeemer and so was called as Yahweh of Hosts. You will note the KJV renders Yahweh as LORD.
Isa44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Note I and not we and then beside me there is no God!
This is the Elohiym and it dont mean two!
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
The word, God, above is Elohiym as below,
430. 'elohiym
Myhla 'elohiym el-o-heem'
plural of 433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:--angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
See Hebrew 433
Isa44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Isa43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
OK! Does that not clearly tell us that Yahweh the Father and Yahweh of Hosts are truly one! Or will you limit God and tell Him He cant be what He needs to be to redeem fallen man? Then He tells you , beside me there is no Saviour!
Now He had to come in a man to complete it as Satan had to be overcome by a man and not God! You surely know that Jesus overcame Satan even taking on Himself our sinful fallen natures taking no power but what is ours to do the same! Listen up,
Isa9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
So we see Jesus was conceived in Marys womb was that Holy thing and would then would be born the son of man and also the Son of God!
Ga4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Heb10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Joh14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Now we notice Jesus is telling them that to pluck from His Hand is to pluck from His Fathers Hand of which no man is able!
Joh10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh10:30 I and my Father are one.
So we see Yahwehs extension, Yahweh of Hosts performed the union, incarnation of conceiving in her womb to be our Saviour who spoke at times as the Father in Him and at times as the man of flesh of whom was indwelt full our Father. You must see Philip was to see that clearly and should have. Joh 14:9 above.
No Jesus was not another God nor is the Holy Spirit! He was Emmanuel, God our Father with us and now the scriptures,
Mt1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Joh4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
And so we see, God is a Spirit and is not another God.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Father God has a seperate name than Jesus does.
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
We is plural
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Jesus Himself refers to having a Father who is a separate Person. Is Jesus a liar or deluded ?
John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Fathers hand.
Father God has hands.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
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John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
I ask again is Jesus a deluded liar ? Or are you arian ?
Ed you don't get it, the Deity in Christ is the Deity of the Fathers extension of Himself to be His Redeemer, read up,
Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; "I" am the first, and "I"am the last; and beside me there is no God.
De 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: (God in Hebrew is Elohiym)
430. 'elohiym Myhla 'elohiym el-o-heem' plural of 433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:--angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
See Hebrew 433
Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Ed, Yahweh king of Israel possessed of Himself the Yahweh of Hosts in the very beginning to do the creation of all that is seen and all the Hosts, hence His name.
The time is now soon at hand that the sin and rebellion problem is taken care of and no longer a Redeemer will ever for all eternity be needed and so then Paul tells us the Father then once again can be all in all.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 1Co 15:25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Na 1:9What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.
So we see Paul's testimony cinches the fact that the Deity of Christ is the Father's indwelling.
If Scripture is not believed in it's pre- 508 - 538 AD testimony RE Father God, and Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, then you only use SOP to suit your opinions.
There is only ONE Yah and He came in Jesus Christ in all fullness and the Holy Spirit is Yah also as scripture clearly teaches, also states ONE Spirit,
Eph 4:4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
No the Holy Spirit is not another God but is God the ONE and only Yah!
Joh 4:24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Yah comes to us via His Son, via His Spirit and by His Word but not by another God!
The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption. In order to fully carry out this plan, it was decided that Christ, the only begotten Son of God, should give Himself an offering for sin. What line can measure the depth of this love? AUCR 1901-4-1
Also there would be the eternal heavenly dignitaries--God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit--arming them with more than mortal energy, and would advance with them to the work, and convince the world of sin. Other Manuscripts Vol.16
We have been brought together as a school, and we need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds, unseen by human eyes; that the Lord God is our Keeper and Helper. Talks and Sermons Vol.2
So it is easy to see that there are 3 persons who make up the Godhead. While agreeing strongly that using the term "Trinity" in our SDA denomination is extremely unfortunate, the fact remains that there are 3 persons in the Godhead.
It is instructive to note that all so-called current-day "Anti Trinitarians" try to put Jesus down a notch or two from being actually "God".
The opposite is true of putting Christ down a notch, seeing He is the Father with us in a body of flesh makes Him Truly God with us and still is until all us under His feet.
The following verses cinch the fact of the Father being in Him and soon now to be returned unto the Father that He once again can be all in all!
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 1Co 15:25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Take it as you will, embedded, but it will forever and forever for all eternity remain Yahweh only is God. I must stand if I have to alone on His Word but know this, I am not alone, He is with me.
Eph 4:4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Tit 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: Sound doctrine is tested by the one and only infallible guide, His word
Yah only comes to us in a triune of ways, Period!
1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Since this is a discussion board we are working to get to the truth and not to get angry with one another. Truth will only shine the brighter for investigation and actually invites it. The truth of anything cannot be killed. Why?
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Joh 17:17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Now hear Him here, Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Joh 14:10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Now there is a cinch to the fact from Paul that it is the Father in Christ that makes Him God with us! This is a profound understanding from Paul,
1Co 15:24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 1Co 15:25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
What is that telling you? It is telling me that it is Yahweh the Father who until it is finished that has been in Jesus.
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
No Redeemer is ever to be needed again yes and for all eternity! Na 1:9 ¶ What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.
Christ and the Father are yet one and is hopefully dwelling in each of us and so is our strength and stay and quickening to see and understand and sort truth from error!
Wonderful promise! Also profound meaning in these verses!
1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
