Post Info TOPIC: Pining Down the Nature Christ Took
Gibs

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Pining Down the Nature Christ Took
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I have posted this on another forum and will post it here.

First please note the first thing said here, "there is danger in approaching subjects which dwell on the humanity of the Son of the Infinite God!
 
"I perceive that there is danger in approaching subjects which dwell on the humanity of the Son of the infinite God. He did humble Himself when He saw He was in fashion as a man, that He might understand the force of all temptations wherewith man is beset. . . . On not one occasion was there a response to his manifold temptations. Not once did Christ step on Satan's ground, to give him any advantage. Satan found nothing in Him to encourage his advances.--The SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 5, p. 1129. {7ABC 451.2}
 
Many claim that it was impossible for Christ to be overcome by temptation. Then He could not have been placed in Adam's position; He could not have gained the victory that Adam failed to gain. If we have in any sense a more trying conflict than had Christ, then He would not be able to succor us. But our Saviour took humanity, with all its liabilities. He took the nature of man, with the possibility of yielding to temptation. We have nothing to bear which He has not endured. . . . In man's behalf, Christ conquered by enduring the severest test. For our sake He exercised a self-control stronger than hunger or death.--The Desire of Ages, p. 117. {7ABC 451.3}
 
VI. Bore the Imputed Sin and Guilt of the World
 
Christ bore the guilt of the sins of the world. Our sufficiency is found only in the incarnation and death of the Son of God. He could suffer, because sustained by divinity. He could endure, because He was without one taint of disloyalty or sin.--The Youth's Instructor, Aug. 4, 1898. {7ABC 451.4}
 
He [Christ] took human nature, and bore the infirmities and degeneracy of the race.--The Review and Herald, July 28, 1874. {7ABC 452.1}
 
It would have been an almost infinite humiliation for the Son of God to take man's nature, even when Adam stood in his innocence in Eden. But Jesus accepted humanity when the race had been weakened by four thousand years of sin. Like every child of Adam He accepted the results of the working of the great law of heredity. What these results were is shown in the history of His earthly ancestors. He came with such a heredity to share our sorrows and temptations, and to give us the example of a sinless life. {7ABC 452.2}
 
Satan in heaven had hated Christ for His position in the courts of God. He hated Him the more when he himself was dethroned. He hated Him who pledged Himself to redeem a race of sinners. Yet into the world where Satan claimed dominion God permitted His Son to come, a helpless babe, subject to the weakness of humanity. He permitted Him to meet life's peril in common with every human soul, to fight the battle as every child of humanity must fight it, at the risk of failure and eternal loss.-- The Desire of Ages, p. 49. {7ABC 452.3}
 
Wondrous combination of man and God! He might have helped His human nature to withstand the inroads of disease by pouring from His divine nature vitality and undecaying vigor to the human. But He humbled Himself to man's nature. . . . God became man!--The Review and Herald, Sept. 4, 1900. {7ABC 452.4} 
 
     In our humanity, Christ was to redeem Adam's failure. But when Adam was assailed by the tempter, none of the effects of sin were upon him. He stood in the strength of perfect manhood, possessing the full vigor of mind and body. He was surrounded with the glories of Eden, and was in daily communion with heavenly beings. It was not thus with Jesus when He entered the wilderness to cope with Satan. For four thousand years the race had been decreasing in physical strength, in mental power, and the moral worth; and Christ took upon Him the infirmities of degenerate humanity. Only thus could He rescue man from the lowest depths of his degradation.--The Desire of Ages, p. 117. {7ABC 452.5}
 
Clad in the vestments of humanity, the Son of God came down to the level of those He wished to save. In Him was no guile or sinfulness; He was ever pure and undefiled; yet He took upon Him our sinful nature. Clothing His divinity with humanity, that He might associate with fallen humanity, He sought to regain for man that which, by disobedience, Adam had lost for himself and for the world. In His own character He displayed to the world the character of God.--The Review and Herald, Dec. 15, 1896. {7ABC 452.6}
 
He for our sakes laid aside His royal robe, stepped down from the throne in heaven, and condescended to clothe His divinity with humility, and became like one of us except in sin, that His life and character should be a pattern for all to copy, that they might have the precious gift of eternal life.--The Youth's Instructor, Oct. 20, 1886. {7ABC 453.1}
 
     He was born without a taint of sin, but came into the world in like manner as the human family.--Letter 97, 1898. {7ABC 453.2}
 
Harmless and undefiled, He walked among the thoughtless, the rude, the uncourteous.--The Desire of Ages, p. 90. {7ABC 453.3}
 
Christ, who knew not the least taint of sin or defilement, took our nature in its deteriorated condition. This was humiliation greater than finite man can comprehend. God was manifest in the flesh. He humbled Himself. What a subject for thought, for deep, earnest contemplation! So infinitely great that He was the Majesty of heaven, and yet He stooped so low, without losing one atom of His dignity and glory! He stooped to poverty and to the deepest abasement among men.--The Signs of the Times, June 9, 1898. {7ABC 453.4}

     Notwithstanding that the sins of a guilty world were laid upon Christ, notwithstanding the humiliation of taking upon himself our fallen nature, the voice from heaven declared Him to be the Son of the Eternal.--The Desire of Ages, p. 112. {7ABC 453.5}
 
Though He had no taint of sin upon His character, yet He condescended to connect our fallen human nature with His divinity. By thus taking humanity, He honored humanity. Having taken our fallen nature, He showed what it might become, by accepting the ample provision He has made for it, and by becoming partaker of the divine nature."--Special Instruction Relating to the Review and Herald Office, and the Work in Battle Creek, May 26, 1896, p. 13. {7ABC 453.6}
 
He could not have been our Saviour any way else, He had to come down to our level or Satan would have made capital of that!
 
"We need not place the obedience of Christ by itself as something for which He was particularly adapted, by His particular divine nature, for He stood before God as man's representative and tempted as man's substitute and surety. If Christ had a special power which it is not the privilege of man to have, Satan would have made capital of this matter. The work of Christ was to take from the claims of Satan his control of man, and he could do this only in the way that He came--a man, tempted as a man, rendering the obedience of a man."  {6MR 340.2} 
 
There will be a few more paragraphs a little later.
 
1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.


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Gibs

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Second Part,

 

Here is a little thought out of the SOP that we all must realize, That is was hard for our Saviour, Jesus Christ to keep himself at our fallen level,

 

"It was a difficult task for the Prince of Life to carry out the plan which he had undertaken for the salvation of man, in clothing his divinity with humanity. He had received honor in the heavenly courts, and was familiar with absolute power. It was as difficult for him to keep the level of humanity as for men to rise above the low level of their depraved natures, and be partakers of the divine nature. {2Red 87.2}

 


Christ was put to the closest test, requiring the strength of all his faculties to resist the inclination when in danger, to use his power to deliver himself from peril, and triumph over the power of the prince of darkness. Satan showed his knowledge of the weak points of the human heart, and puts forth his utmost power to take advantage of the weakness of the humanity, which Christ had assumed in order to overcome his temptations on man's account. {2Red 87.3}

Folks, He Stooped! You must see that He must not come out of that STOOP or he would have lost to Satan!

 

" If those who attend our College would become men of influence and power, they must learn to reverence and honor their Creator; if they would obtain a thorough education, they must become acquainted with the Book of all books. This volume contains the jewels of truth that are able to make them wise unto salvation. Concerning this book, the Majesty of Heaven, who left his royal throne and stooped to the level of humanity that he might elevate the fallen race, has given the injunction: "Search the Scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life, and they are they which testify of me." {College Record, January 1, 1878 par. 1}

 

You must also see He had a battle both ways, a battle to keep condescended and a battle to overcome Satan while condescended or stooped.

Wow! Wonder of Wonders!

 

His Blessings to all!

 

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 

 

 

 

 

 



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Ed Sutton

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Christ, at an infinite cost, by a painful process, mysterious to angels as well as to men, assumed humanity. Hiding His divinity, laying aside His glory, He was born a babe in Bethlehem. In human flesh He lived the law of God, that He might condemn sin in the flesh, and bear witness to heavenly intelligences that the law was ordained to life and to ensure the happiness, peace, and eternal good of all who obey. . . . {OFC 259.2} 

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Christ bore the sins of the whole world. He endured our punishmentthe wrath of God against transgression. His trial involved the fierce temptation of thinking that He was forsaken by God. His soul was tortured by the pressure of a horror of great darkness. . . . He could not have been tempted in all points like as man is tempted had there been no possibility of His failing. He was a free agent, placed on probation, as was Adam and as is man. Unless there is a possibility of yielding, temptation is no temptation. Temptation comes and is resisted when man is powerfully influenced to do a wrong action, and knowing that he can do it, resists by faith, with a firm hold upon divine power. {OFC 259.5} 

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 (1 Peter 1:11, 12.) The Incarnation a Painful Process.--The work of redemption is called a mystery, and it is indeed the mystery by which everlasting righteousness is brought to all who believe. The race in consequence of sin was at enmity with God. Christ, at an infinite cost, by a painful process, mysterious to angels as well as to men, assumed humanity. Hiding His divinity, laying aside His glory, He was born a babe in Bethlehem. In human flesh He lived the law of God, that He might condemn sin in the flesh, and bear witness to heavenly intelligences that the law was ordained to life and to ensure the happiness, peace, and eternal good of all who obey. But the same infinite sacrifice that is life to those who believe is a testimony of condemnation to the disobedient, speaking death and not life (MS 29, 1899).  {7BC 915.3} 

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Christ's overcoming and obedience is that of a true human being. In our conclusions, we make many mistakes because of our erroneous views of the human nature of our Lord. When we give to His human nature a power that it is not possible for man to have in his conflicts with Satan, we destroy the completeness of His humanity. His imputed grace and power He gives to all who receive Him by faith.  {OHC 48.2}  

     The obedience of Christ to His Father was the same obedience that is required of man. Man cannot overcome Satan's temptations without divine power to combine with his instrumentality. So with Jesus Christ; He could lay hold of divine power. He came not to our world to give the obedience of a lesser God to a greater, but as a man to obey God's Holy Law, and in this way He is our example. The Lord Jesus came to our world, not to reveal what a God could do, but what a man could do, through faith in God's power to help in every emergency. Man is, through faith, to be a partaker in the divine nature, and to overcome every temptation wherewith he is beset.  {OHC 48.3}  

     The Lord now demands that every son and daughter of Adam, through faith in Jesus Christ, serve Him in human nature which we now have. The Lord Jesus has bridged the gulf that sin has made. He has connected earth with heaven, and finite man with the infinite God. Jesus, the world's Redeemer, could only keep the commandments of God in the same way that humanity can keep them.  {OHC 48.4}  

     We are not to serve God as if we were not human, but we are to serve Him in the nature we have, that has been redeemed by the Son of God; through the righteousness of Christ we shall stand before God pardoned, and as though we had never sinned.  {OHC 48.5}  

     The humanity of the Son of God is everything to us. It is the golden chain that binds our souls to Christ, and through Christ to God.  {OHC 48.6} see   {6MR 341.2 - 341.4} 

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Hebrews 2: 14 ¶  Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15  And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16  For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17  Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18  For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

 



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Gibs

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Thaks Ed,

When the great majority of Christians today hold that Jesus Christ did not overcome from where we are, it is important we see that idea is false.  The sad part is perhaps the majority of SDA's do and for us with all these statements of the SOP and the Word, we have no excuse.

When Christ does really dwell in us, the Spirit of Truth, the Comforter, we can walk as He did and there is NO excuse that we can not!

 

Mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.



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Ed Sutton

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"The Saviour took upon Himself the infirmities of humanity and lived a sinless life, that men might have no fear that because of the weakness of human nature they could not overcome. Christ came to make us "partakers of the divine nature," and His life declares that humanity, combined with divinity, does not commit sin. {MH 180.5} "

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"Victory Assured Through Christ's Sinless Life.--The Saviour took upon Himself the infirmities of humanity, and lived a sinless life, that men might have no fear that because of the weakness of human nature they could not overcome. Christ came to make us "partakers of the divine nature," and His life declares that humanity, combined with divinity, does not commit sin.  {Te 107.1}  

     The Saviour overcame to show man how he may overcome. All the temptations of Satan, Christ met with the word of God. By trusting in God's promises, He received power to obey God's commandments, and the tempter could gain no advantage. To every temptation His answer was, "It is written." So God has given us His word wherewith to resist evil. Exceeding great and precious promises are ours, that by these we "might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." 2 Peter 1:4.  {Te 107.2}  

     Bid the tempted one look not to circumstances, to the weakness of self, or to the power of temptation, but to the power of God's word. All its strength is ours. "Thy word," says the psalmist, "have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against Thee." "By the word of Thy lips I have kept me from the paths of the destroyer." Psalm 119:11;  17:4.  {Te 107.3} 

     Linked With Christ Through Prayer.--Talk courage to the people; lift them up to God in prayer. Many who have been overcome by temptation are humiliated by their failures, and they feel that it is in vain for them to approach unto God; but this thought is of the enemy's suggestion. When they have sinned, and feel that they cannot pray, tell them that it is then the time to pray. Ashamed they may be, and deeply humbled; but as they confess their sins, He who is faithful and just will forgive their sins, and cleanse them from all unrighteousness.  {Te 107.4}  

     Nothing is apparently more helpless, yet really more invincible, than the soul that feels its nothingness, and relies wholly on the merits of the Saviour. By prayer, by the study of His word, by faith in His abiding presence, the weakest of human beings may live in contact with the living Christ, and He will hold them by a hand that will never let go.-- The Ministry of Healing, pages 179-182.  {Te 108.1}   "

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MR No. 599 - What It Means to Partake of the Divine Nature

 

     Christians preparing for the city God has built for the pure and holy must show that they love God and their fellow men. This must be. Otherwise Christ cannot stamp them with the image of God. He cannot restore in them His attributes, or make them partakers of the divine nature.--Ms 62, 1897, p. 3. ("To Brethren in California," June 3, 1897.)  {8MR 289.1}  

     There has been need for this prayer to be offered: "Oh, my best Friend, my Maker, my Lord, shape me and mold me into Thy divine likeness. Make me entirely like Thyself. Refine, purify, quicken me, that I may represent the character of God."  {8MR 289.2}  

     Religion and business are not two separate things, but one. All that trust in the Lord implicitly will be tested and tried. Then the superscription of God will be placed upon them.--Letter 49, 1897, p. 4. (To Brethren Daniells, Colcord, Faulkhead, Palmer, and Salisbury, September 1, 1897.)  {8MR 289.3}  

     There is not one of the feeblest of humanity but can be a conqueror by being a partaker of the divine nature. . . .  {8MR 289.4}  

     Every member of the human family is honored by the achievement of this [Christ's] wonderful victory, making it possible for every soul to become a partaker of the divine nature if he will connect with Christ.--Ms 49, 1897, pp. 9, 10. ("Obedience to Physical Law," May 19, 1897.) 

 

 

                                    -290-  {8MR 289.5}  

     How is man to become so favored as to have this vital connection with God? He can only receive it through Christ, the Sin-bearer, in behalf of all who shall repent of their sins and believe in Him. . . .  {8MR 290.1}  

     As man accepts the righteousness of Christ, he is a partaker of the divine nature.--Ms 58, 1897, pp. 6, 7. ("The Truth as It Is in Jesus," June 21, 1897.)  {8MR 290.2}  

     He [Christ] stood forth as God's representative in the world, to show that man in his humanity may take hold of divinity, and through that divine nature have power to escape the corruptions that are in the world through lust. . . .  {8MR 290.3}  

     Then [after the third temptation] it was that the divinity of Christ came to the aid of His humanity. With divine authority He commanded, "Get thee behind Me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve." (Luke 4:8.)--Ms 92, 1908, pp. 6, 8. ("Lessons From the Fifteenth Chapter of John," Talk, August 22, 1908.)  {8MR 290.4} 

     It is of the greatest importance that you abide in Christ, and that in your humanity you lay hold upon divinity. . . .  {8MR 290.5}  

     What you need is the humanity that was in Christ Jesus, that laid hold upon divinity. Take hold upon that divinity and bring it into your life, and you will be a savor of life unto life.--Ms 19, 1909, pp. 2-4. ("Abiding in Christ," Sermon, May 15, 1909.) 

 

 

                                    -291-  {8MR 290.6}  

     Christ came to the earth to bring divinity to humanity. We need that divinity; young and old need it. If you do not know anything about this power, I beseech you, for Christ's sake, to seek for it.--Ms 33, 1909, p. 9. ("A Lesson in Health Reform," Talk, May 26, 1909.)  {8MR 291.1}  

     It is those who overcome the temptations that are in the world through lust, who are partakers of the divine nature. . . .  {8MR 291.2}  

     It requires prayer, it requires faith, it requires understanding to become a partaker of the divine nature. But as we obtain this experience, we are not benefiting ourselves alone, we are giving to all around us an evidence that all may be partakers of the divine nature; all may be overcomers.--Ms 49, 1909, pp. 5, 6. ("Partakers of the Divine Nature," Sermon, June 6, 1909.)  {8MR 291.3}  

     If we will take hold of the life of Christ and study His teachings, He will show us how to accept the attributes of His divine nature.--Ms 85, 1909, p. 9. ("Lessons of Self-Denial, Trust, and Cooperation," October 29, 1909.)  {8MR 291.4}  

     The Son of God came to our world in human form to show man that divinity and humanity combined does not commit sin. He is our Pattern. Through Him we may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.--Ms 16, 1898, p. 6. ("Wholehearted Service," February 10, 1898.)  {8MR 291.5}  

     The prayer of Christ is for all who acknowledge that they are His people, denominated to be loyal and true to all the light that Christ has given them. He first prays for their purity, and next He prays for their unity. The wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, then easy to be entreated by the invitation of the Holy Spirit, which Christ's true disciples shall receive in large measure, because they are assimilated to His image--partakers of the divine nature. . . .  {8MR 292.1}  

     But shall not this prayer be answered by those who claim to believe the truth? Those who are truly joined to the Lord are controlled by one Spirit. They are stamped with the same image and superscription, and they give evidence that they are influenced by the same power, because they are joined to the Lord by the infinite Sacrifice made by Christ, that they might be knit together through the sanctification of the truth, in the bonds of love, perfect, heavenborn love. They have exchanged the heart of selfishness and sin for the heart that God gives. They are partakers of the divine nature. They may differ in speech and attitude, but they are guided by the same Spirit. No vainglory, no independent "I" comes in to take possession. The quarrelsome spirit ceases, and the world is given evidence of the power of true conversion.--Ms 29, 1906, pp. 5, 8. ("That They All May Be One," March 8, 1906.) Released March 17, 1978.  {8MR 292.2}  

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"You are simply to believe that Christ is able to save unto the uttermost all who come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for us. What does intercession comprehend?--It is the golden chain which binds finite man to the throne of the infinite God. The human agent whom Christ has died to save importunes the throne of God, and his petition is taken up by Jesus, who has purchased him with his own blood. Our great High Priest places his righteousness on the side of the sincere suppliant, and the prayer of Christ blends with that of the human petitioner. Christ has urged that his people pray without ceasing. This does not mean that we should always be upon our knees, but that prayer is to be as the breath of the soul. Our silent requests, wherever we may be, are to be ascending unto God, and Jesus, our Advocate, pleads in our behalf, bearing up with the incense of his righteousness our requests to the Father. The Lord Jesus loves his people, and when they put their trust in him, depending wholly upon him, he strengthens them. He will live through them, giving them the inspiration of his sanctifying Spirit, imparting to the soul a vital transfusion of himself. He acts through their faculties, and causes them to choose his will and to act out his character. ................. {SSW, February 1, 1896 par. 3}

 

Look up "is the faith of Jesus "   

The third angel's message is the proclamation  of the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus Christ. The commandments of God have been proclaimed, but the faith of Jesus Christ has not been proclaimed by Seventh-day Adventists as of equal importance, the law and the gospel going hand in hand. I cannot find language to express this subject in its fullness.  {3SM 172.2}  

     "The faith of Jesus." It is talked of, but not understood. What constitutes the faith of Jesus, that belongs to the third angel's message? Jesus becoming our sin-bearer that He might become our sin-pardoning Saviour. He was treated as we deserve to be treated. He came to our world and took our sins that we might take His righteousness. And faith in the ability of Christ to save us amply and fully and entirely is the faith of Jesus.  {3SM 172.3} & {12MR 193.3 -.4} & {1888 217.3 -.4} 

 

 



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Gibs

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To deny just this one scripture alone is nothing but a ploy or strategy to get around putting away all sin from us,

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

The Greek for "it behoved Hiim",


opheilo of-i'-lo opheileo of-i-leh'-o
probably from the base of 3786 (through the idea of accruing); to owe (pecuniarily); figuratively, to be under obligation (ought, must, should); morally, to fail in duty:--behove, be bound, (be) debt(-or), (be) due(-ty), be guilty (indebted), (must) need(-s), ought, owe, should. See also 3785.

See Greek 3786
See Greek 3785

Yes He was obligated to do so, if it could have been any other way it would have been made clear!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.



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Ed Sutton

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Human nature was ruined, and became the fallen nature, so the arena of battle became the existing new human nature - the fallen nature, the pre fall nature had ceased to exist.  That is what Christ came to redeem, individuals with fallen natures, so He took that same nature into Himself without indulging it's carnal desires, conquered it within Himself, retaining unbroken unity with father God, becoming victorious for Himself and for us, and can now offer perfected humanity in our behalf and impute it unto us and implant it into us.  it is the penny of the vineyard. 

"    Now while these youth on their part were working out their own salvation with fear and trembling, it was God who was working in them both to will and to do his own good pleasure. The conditions of the reward for our own good are as if everything depended upon ourselves. To make God's grace our own, we must act our part. There is a work that is laid before us to do, and this work must be done with fidelity, and the fruits we bear will manifest before God, before angels, and before men the character of our work. The penny was given to the laborer in the vineyard, but not to the loiterer in the market place.  {RH, July 19, 1887 par. 20}       "

"The reception of the penny by the laborers represents the character that God will give to those who follow him.  ............................... {RH, July 10, 1894 par. 7} 

 

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 "In Christ there was a subjection of the human to the divine. He clothed his divinity with humanity, and placed his own person under obedience to divinity. Satan had tempted Adam and Eve to believe that they should be as gods. Christ requires that humanity shall obey  divinity. In his humanity, Christ was obedient to all his Father's commandments.  {RH, November 9, 1897 par. 10}  "

"The human nature of Christ was like unto ours. And suffering was really more keenly felt by Him; for His spiritual nature was free from every taint of sin. The aversion to suffering was in proportion to its severity. His desire for the removal of suffering was just as strong as human beings experience.--Ms 42, 1897, pp. 9, 10. ("In Gethsemane," May 16, 1897.)    White Estate, Wash. D. C. January 4, 1982  {11MR 345.4}  "

"The soul is exalted and transformed by dwelling, not on self and on the sorrows and hardships that surround us, but on the glories of the eternal world. Unbroken communion with God gives increased knowledge of his truth and will, and of the soul's susceptibilities and powers; and the result will be unselfish motives and right traits of character. There will be no darkness or gloom to reflect to others. More of Heaven in men on earth would make religion attractive, and win souls to Christ.  {ST, March 5, 1885 par. 11}  

     Christ came not to be ministered unto, but to minister; and when his love reigns in the heart, we shall follow his example. If we keep uppermost in our minds the unkind and unjust acts of others, we shall find it impossible to love them as Christ has loved us; for there are few persons who do not on close acquaintance reveal unamiable traits of character. Even the best of us have these unlovely traits; and in selecting friends we should choose those who will not be driven away from us when they learn that we are not perfect. Mutual forbearance is called for. We should love and respect one another notwithstanding the faults and imperfections that we cannot help seeing; for this is the Spirit of Christ. Humility and self-distrust should be cultivated, and a patient tenderness with the faults of others. This will kill out all narrowing selfishness and make us large-hearted and generous.  {ST, March 5, 1885 par. 12}  



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Gibs

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The definition we need to understand what True Love is, is Jesus Christ. Agape love!

Wondrous beyond comprehension, we truly stand agape, amazed!

Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.


agape ag-ah'-pay
from 25; love, i.e. affection or benevolence; specially (plural) a love-feast:--(feast of) charity(-ably), dear, love.

See Greek 25

And so how can we not obey His Word here,

Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

How can we not want to please Him and do His entire will for us in ALL things!

It surely must be our first and utmost desire!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.



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Ed Sutton

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What is love ?  This is Part-1.  

 

It is the Godheads divine nature, character, heart & mind, reasons, attitude, and actions. It is what They are made of, and why and how They do everything They do.

 

Love is built of these interlocking parts, when one is missing, love is incomplete, and might crumble out of the human heart, in time, if not renewed and re-implanted.   Love is unselfish courage and diligence and resolve, both impartial mercy and family mercy, and delight in helping and blessing, faith, virtue, clean righteous godly knowledge, temperance, patience, practical godliness, brotherly kindness, and charity, and charity is composed of Agapous, Agape, Philio, Splagchnizomai (active compassion  <4697>) . 

 

4697 splagchnizomai   pronunciation guide-( splangkh-nid-zom-ahee )   middle voice from 4698; TDNT-7:548,1067; {See TDNT 734} v   AV-have compassion 7, be moved with compassion 5; 12 

1) to be moved as to ones bowels, hence to be moved with compassion, have compassion (for the bowels were thought to be the seat of love and pity) 

 

Every text in the Bible with <4697> always 

 

Love is unselfish courage and diligence and resolve, both impartial mercy and family mercy, and delight in helping and blessing, faith, virtue, clean righteous godly knowledge, temperance, patience, practical godliness, brotherly kindness, and charity, and charity is composed of Agapous, Agape, Philio, Splagchnizomai 

 

The Bible gives component parts to love, the finished product of Gods character, the goal and mission of the Pre Advent I-J. 

 

Gods gifts of Implanted :

unselfish courage <0553><02388><2294>

God directed diligence <4710>

God directed resolve<0977><05647> see Joshua 24:15  

impartial mercy <02654><02617>

family mercy<02550> see Malachi 3:17, <5092> 1st Peter 3:7

delight in helping and blessing <02617><964><02654> see Jeremiah 9:24

faith in God<4102>

virtue<703>

clean righteous <1343><06666>

godly knowledge<1097><1108>

temperance<1466>

patience<5281>

practical godliness<2150>

brotherly kindness<5360>, <5361>, <5384>

charity<26>

 

 

 

 

 

 

and charity is composed of Agapous<25>, Agape<26>, Philio<5384> , Splagchnizomai  <4697> 

 

 

 

"In the thirteenth chapter of first Corinthians the apostle Paul defines true, Christ like love. It would be well to print this chapter in small type in every paper issued from our presses. Put it in the Gospel Herald that it may preach its living sermon wherever the paper may go. This chapter is an expression of the obedience of all who love God and keep His commandments. It is brought into action in the life of every true believer."  {GH, January 1, 1901 par. 3} 

 

 

What is love ?  

 

It is the Godheads divine nature, character, heart & mind, reasons, attitude, and actions. It is what They are made of, and why and how They do everything They do.

 

Love is built of these interlocking parts, when one is missing, love is incomplete, and might crumble out of the human heart, in time, if not renewed and re-implanted.   Love is unselfish courage and diligence and resolve, both impartial mercy and family mercy, and delight in helping and blessing, faith, virtue, clean righteous godly knowledge, temperance, patience, practical godliness, brotherly kindness, and charity, and charity is composed of Agapous, Agape, Philio, Splagchnizomai (active compassion  <4697>) . 

 

4697 sp?a??????µa? splagchnizomai   pronunciation guide-( splangkh-nid-zom-ahee )   middle voice from 4698; TDNT-7:548,1067; {See TDNT 734} v   AV-have compassion 7, be moved with compassion 5; 12 

1) to be moved as to ones bowels, hence to be moved with compassion, have compassion (for the bowels were thought to be the seat of love and pity) 

 

Every text in the Bible with <4697> always 

 

Love is unselfish courage and diligence and resolve, both impartial mercy and family mercy, and delight in helping and blessing, faith, virtue, clean righteous godly knowledge, temperance, patience, practical godliness, brotherly kindness, and charity, and charity is composed of Agapous, Agape, Philio, Splagchnizomai 

 

The Bible gives component parts to love, the finished product of Gods character, the goal and mission of the Pre Advent I-J. 

 

(quoting Stan's post )  John 13

 

34 A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.

 

 

Apply " as I have loved you " go down the list and put into the test right after "as I have loved you" ......unselfish courage <0553><02388><2294>............  then do it again ................use ........God directed diligence <4710>....................God directed resolve<0977><05647> see Joshua 24:15 ................and so on ..........................even continuing with .......temperance<1466> ..............one by one go through the whole Bible inspired list of the facets of Jesus Christ's components of His love .  Look up t

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Ed Sutton

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Woops - double post 

 

intended second part 

Three Fold nature of Salvation and being a Christian

 

1. Union with Father God, and Christ, and the Holy Ghost on their stated terms in the Bible, with heart reception engrafting of Their life and offered character from above, and active human union with them cheerfully. John Chapters 14 and 15 and 16 and 17; 1st Corinthians Chapter 13; Ephesians 3:8-21; 1 John 3:10, 14; 1 John 4:8,20 .

 

2 .  The understanding, adorning and heartfelt obedience, engrafting of all the doctrines of the Bible and the testifying of Jesus Christ.   Matthew 13:3-23; Mark 4:2-20; Luke 8:4-15; James 1:17-27.

 

3. Human relationships on Gods terms.   Matthew Chapters 5 - 7 The Sermon on the Mount .

 

 

God imparts His blessing to us, that we may give to others. And as long as we yield ourselves as the channels through which His love can flow, He will keep the channels supplied. When you ask God for your daily bread, He looks right into your heart to see if you will impart the same to others, more needy than yourself. When you pray, "God be merciful to me a sinner," He watches to see if you will manifest compassion to those with whom you associate. This is the evidence of our connection with God,--that we are merciful even as our Father who is in heaven is merciful. If we are His, we shall do with a cheerful heart just what He tells us to do, however inconvenient, however contrary it may be to our own feelings. . . .  {CS 164.3}  

 

 Wherever there is union with Christ there is love. Whatever other fruits we may bear, if love be missing, they profit nothing. Love to God and our neighbor is the very essence of our religion. No one can love Christ and not love His children. When we are united to Christ, we have the mind of Christ. Purity and love shine forth in the character, meekness and truth control the life. The very expression of the countenance is changed. Christ abiding in the soul exerts a transforming power, and the outward aspect bears witness to the peace and joy that reign within. We drink in the love of Christ, as the branch draws nourishment from the vine. If we are grafted in Christ, if fiber by fiber we have been united with the Living Vine, we shall give evidence of the fact by bearing rich clusters of living fruit. If we are connected with the Light, we shall be channels of light, and in our words and works we shall reflect light to the world. Those who are truly Christians are bound with the chain of love which links earth to heaven, which binds finite man to the infinite God. The light that shines in the face of Jesus Christ shines in the hearts of His followers, to the glory of God.  {1SM 337.2}  

 

 

The qualities which it is essential for all to possess are those which marked the completeness of Christ's character--His love, His patience, His unselfishness, and His goodness. These attributes are gained by doing kindly actions with a kindly heart. But Christ's requirements are not met by His people today. A strange deception is upon the people of God. Selfishness prevents the union which should exist. True love for one another is rare in our churches. This lack of love reveals most certainly that the members do not love God as they suppose they do. They give evidence that they need to be sanctified.  {21MR 411.2}  

     It is the greatest and most fatal deception to suppose that a man can have faith unto life eternal without possessing Christlike love for his brethren. He who loves God and his neighbor is filled with light and love. God is in him and all around him. Christians love those around them as precious souls for whom Christ has died. There is no such thing as a loveless Christian, for "God is love." [1 John 2:3-5, 8-11; John 13:34, 35; 15:12, quoted.]--Ms 133, 1899.  {21MR 411.3} 



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As we contemplate His Wondrous love we do stand agape.  We stand in awe our mouths agape of the epitome of love.  For sure when He dwells within us we have a portion of that wondrous love, oh so needed.

A little from Sister White, a short serious read,

"I wish that all could realize something of the wondrous love of the Son of God, to whom angels ascribe praise, honor, and glory. He was so interested for our salvation that for our sakes he left his high command in heaven, and patiently bore every indignity and slight which man could heap upon him. He was wounded, smitten, and bruised; he was stretched on Calvary's cross, and suffered the most agonizing death, that we might enjoy the light and glory of heaven, and live with him in the mansions he is preparing for us. {RH, August 5, 1884 par. 11} 

 

All heaven is interested in our salvation; and shall we be indifferent? Shall we be careless, as though it were a small matter whether we are saved or lost? Shall we slight the sacrifice that has been made for us? Some have done this, and the frown of God is upon them. But his Spirit will not always be grieved. After God has done all that could be done to save men, if they still show by their lives that they slight offered mercy, death will be their portion; and it will be a dreadful death, for they will have to feel the agony that Christ felt upon the cross. They will then realize what they have lost,--eternal life and the immortal inheritance. {RH, August 5, 1884 par. 12}

 

Young and old have a conflict before them. They should not sleep for a moment, for a wily foe is constantly on the alert to lead them astray and overcome them. There must be an entire, unreserved surrender to God, a forsaking and turning away from the love of the world and earthly things, or we cannot be Christ's disciples. Jesus is soon coming: and will he acknowledge as his people those who are conformed to the world? Oh, no. He will accept as his none but those who are pure and holy,--those who have been purified and made white, and have kept themselves separate, unspotted from the world. {RH, August 5, 1884 par. 13}

 

The life and spirit of Christ is the only standard of excellence and perfection; and our only safe course is to follow his example. If we do this, he will guide us by his counsel, and afterward receive us to glory. If we strive to walk in the footsteps of our Redeemer, if we live for it, and believe for it, God is willing to give us of his free Spirit,--more willing than earthly parents are to give good gifts to their children. Then we shall walk in the light, as he is in the light. And we shall "be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge," that we may be "filled with all the fullness of God." {RH, August 5, 1884 par. 14}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



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Agape love leaves a lot to be desired sometimes:

http://great-controversy-movie.com/blog/?p=290

I've written a fairly detailed report on what the Bible says about "agape" and "phileo".  Did you know that Christ condemned some people for having "agape"?



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One meaning of agape is something that makes one stand in awe, mouth open and this we do at the love, true love Christ and His Father gave in that they both gave all to redeem us from eternal death.  He is love at the epitome level and proved so.  His love cannot be even equaled by man let alone surpassed.  We have not adequate words to express it and only a finite mind.  The finite cannot fathom the infinite One.

God is love, God is Truth and God is life and all things for us.  Do we have agape love?  He says "If you love me keep my commandments." Do we keep His commandments?  Maybe so, but is that even agape love? 

Would being a Martyr for Him be agape love?

That would be as close as we could come would it not.

Of Him we stand in awe and amazement of His Love for us.  He is agape love and beyond!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.



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Agape love is a bad love sometimes.

Let's have true love for God, and forget this "agape" vs "phileo" business.



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Gibs

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Webmaster, would you fill us in on this "Phileo" business.  I know what agape means, open mouth amazement, but you got me on "Phileo business."



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NB

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Jesus asked Peter if he Agape?  Godly love in Greek and Peter answered in Phileo or brotherly love.  

you're saying it is BAD love?  



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NB

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Joh 21:15  So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovestG25 thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I loveG5368 thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. 

 



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Jesus calls <25><26> what abides in Him and in Father God.  Take the Bible Texts & SOP to define what <25>, <26>, <5360>, <5361>, <5384>, <4697>,   <4698> mean and stand for, because this is the era when modern translators are using a different global view of salvation, Scripture, and God, to chip away at faith in the Bible and God, verse by verse.  How western thought changed step by step since the dark ages - and how it affected the Bible   

 

<26> = 106 Bible Texts

John 15:9  As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love <26>.

John 15:10  If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love <26>; even as I have kept my Fathers commandments, and abide in his love <26>.

 

Romans 5:8  But God commendeth his love <26> toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 8:35  Who shall separate us from the love <26> of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

 

 

 

 

<25> =   Bible Texts 

 

Matthew 5:44  But I say unto you, Love <25> your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

 

 

Matthew 22:37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love <25> the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Matthew 22:39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love <25> thy neighbour as thyself.

 

 

John 3:16  For God so loved <25> the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:19  And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved <25> darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

John 3:35  The Father loveth <25> the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

John 8:42  Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love <25> me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 10:17  Therefore doth <25> my Father love <25> me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

 

 

John 13:34  A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love <25> one another; as I have loved <25> you, that ye also love <25> one another.

John 14:15  If ye love <25> me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21  He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth <25> me: and he that loveth <25> me shall be loved <25> of my Father, and I will love <25> him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 14:23  Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love <25> me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love <25> him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 14:24  He that loveth <25> me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Fathers which sent me.

 

Matthew 5:44  But I say unto you, Love <25> your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

 

 

Matthew 22:37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love <25> the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Matthew 22:39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love <25> thy neighbour as thyself.

 

 

John 3:16  For God so loved <25> the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:19  And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved <25> darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

John 3:35  The Father loveth <25> the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

John 8:42  Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love <25> me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 10:17  Therefore doth <25> my Father love <25> me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

 

 

John 13:34  A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love <25> one another; as I have loved <25> you, that ye also love <25> one another.

John 14:15  If ye love <25> me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21  He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth <25> me: and he that loveth <25> me shall be loved <25> of my Father, and I will love <25> him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 14:23  Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love <25> me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love <25> him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 14:24  He that loveth <25> me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Fathers which sent me.

 

 

5360. philadelphia fil-ad-el-fee-ah; from 5361

5360 = 5  Bible texts

Romans 12:10  Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love <5360>; in honour preferring one another;

1 Thessalonians 4:9  But as touching brotherly love <5360> ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

Hebrews 13:1  Let brotherly love <5360> continue.

1 Peter 1:22  Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren <5360>, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

2 Peter 1:7  And to godliness brotherly kindness <5360>; and to brotherly kindness <5360> charity.

 

5361.philadelphos fil-ad-el-fos; from 5384 and 80

5361 = 1  Bible text

1 Peter 3:8  Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren <5361>, be pitiful, be courteous:

 

5384. philos

5384 = 27  Bible texts

John 15:14  Ye are my friends <5384>, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

John 15:15  Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends <5384>; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

 

 

 

4697. splagchnizomai splangkh-nid-zom-ahee; middle voice from 4698

4697 = 12  Bible texts

 

Matthew 9:36  But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion <4697> on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.

Matthew 14:14  And Jesus went forth, and saw a great multitude, and was moved with compassion <4697> toward them, and he healed their sick.

Matthew 15:32  Then Jesus called his disciples unto him, and said, I have compassion <4697> on the multitude, because they continue with me now three days, and have nothing to eat: and I will not send them away fasting, lest they faint in the way.

Matthew 18:27  Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion <4697>, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

Matthew 20:34  So Jesus had compassion <4697> on them, and touched their eyes: and immediately their eyes received sight, and they followed him.

Mark 1:41  And Jesus, moved with compassion <4697>, put forth his hand, and touched him, and saith unto him, I will; be thou clean.

Mark 6:34  And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion <4697> toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things.

Mark 8:2  I have compassion <4697> on the multitude, because they have now been with me three days, and have nothing to eat:

Mark 9:22  And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion <4697> on us, and help us.

Luke 7:13  And when the Lord saw her, he had compassion <4697> on her, and said unto her, Weep not.

Luke 10:33  But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion <4697> on him,

Luke 15:20  And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion <4697>, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

 

4698. splagchnon splangkh-non

4698  = 11  Bible texts

Luke 1:78  Through the tender <4698> mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

Acts 1:18  Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels <4698> gushed out.

2 Corinthians 6:12  Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels <4698>.

2 Corinthians 7:15  And his inward affection <4698> is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him.

Philippians 1:8  For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels <4698> of Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:1  If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels <4698> and mercies,

Colossians 3:12  Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels <4698> of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Philemon 1:7  For we have great joy and consolation in thy love, because the bowels <4698> of the saints are refreshed by thee, brother.

Philemon 1:12  Whom I have sent again: thou therefore receive him, that is, mine own bowels <4698>:

Philemon 1:20  Yea, brother, let me have joy of thee in the Lord: refresh my bowels <4698> in the Lord.

1 John 3:17  But whoso hath this worlds good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels <4698> of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

 

Philippians 2:1  If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love <26>, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels <4698> and mercies,

Philemon 1:7  For we have great joy and consolation in thy love <26>, because the bowels <4698> of the saints are refreshed by thee, brother.

1 John 3:17  But whoso hath this worlds good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels <4698> of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love <26> of God in him?



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The video lecture how western thought got changed since the dark ages and even academic SDA views of Scripture in too many cases.  Can not embed video unless I pay them a fee. 

http://vimeo.com/44863938



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Ed Sutton

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agapao <25> = 109 Bible texts   ( missed giving the number of texts ) forum software does not allow edits after posting.

 

God created and maintains reality, God is and defines love no matter the Biblical word used to express some face of it, Bible & SOP alone are qualified to define love, only they come from the Creator and upholder of reality, all the rest is human conjecture no matter if accurate or not, or doctrines of devils working counterfeits .     Love is the most abused word and concept in the English language.  

Love rejoices in truth - it is more strictly doctrinal than the most intense human theologian, but the counterfeit is sentimental warm fuzzies ( spiritual fungus infection ), more active that trying to acquire merits by works, love contains feelings, is a principle, and a decision built upon what's right - despite the cost.  



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NB

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I think you made the point clear ED.  wink



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I'll just copy and paste my entire blog post on this "agape" vs "phileo" business:

Is Agape a perfect God-like love? All 328 hits of partial matches of love in the New Testament are considered in this study to determine if agape is only used to refer to a God-like love.

Some definitions are in order.
Strongs concordance:
G25
= agapao = ag-ap-ah-o
Perhaps from agan (much; or compare [H5689]); to love (in a social or moral sense): (be-) love (-ed). Compare G5368.

G26
= agape = ag-ah-pay
From G25; love, that is, affection or benevolence; specifically (plural) a love feast: (feast of) charity ([-ably]), dear, love.

Contrasted with phileo
G5368
= phileo = fil-eh-o
From G5384; to be a friend to (fond of [an individual or an object]), that is, have affection for (denoting personal attachment, as a matter of sentiment or feeling; while G25 is wider, embracing especially the judgment and the deliberate assent of the will as a matter of principle, duty and propriety: the two thus stand related very much as G2309 and G1014, or as G2372 and G3563 respectively; the former being chiefly of the heart and the latter of the head); specifically to kiss (as a mark of tenderness): kiss, love.

There are at least 6 places in the Bible showing that agape can have meanings different than a God-like love. It can even mean a bad love!
agape:

Luke 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

Here we see that sinners agape each other.

Luke 11:43 Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets.

Jesus condemns the Pharisees for having agape!

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Jesus condemns men for having agape!!

2Timothy 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

Paul rebukes Demas for having agape.

2Peter 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

Peter shows that Balaams agape was bad.

1John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

If any man has this agape, the agape of the Father is not in him.

So we clearly see that there are times in the Bible when agape refers to a love of something definitely not of God. How about the phileo kind of love? Is it just a human love, or brotherly love as often stated? While it is true that Philadelphia means brotherly love, there is nothing inherent in the word to signify that it has the meaning of a somehow less than Godly type of love.
phileo:

John 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

The Father phileos the Son, showing conclusively that phileo can also refer to the love of God.

John 11:3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.

Jesus had phileo for Lazarus.

John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

The Father phileos us because we phileo the Father. Isnt this perfect love?

John 20:2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

Jesus phileos John.

1Corinthians 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

If we dont have phileo for Jesus, we are anathema!!!

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

God our Saviour has phileo towards us :)

Titus 3:15 All that are with me salute thee. Greet them that love us in the faith. Grace be with you all. Amen.

Paul says to his brethren in Christ to greet those who have phileo for him and his companions.

Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Jesus rebukes and chastens all those he phileos.

With all this evidence, why do we still hear of agape being some kind of super-human God-like perfect love, and phileo being some kind of sub-perfect human love? Im not sure, but guess that someone was studying to get a doctorate of divinity (above Jesus?!) and had to come up with something new and clever to catch the attention of those critiquing his thesis, and in reading something original into the text in John 21, got his doctorate, and the result is a confused remnant church today.

Lord, please help us to follow your straight word, and study for ourselves to show ourselves approved unto you. Thank you for loving us no matter what kind of Greek words you had the writers of the Bible use, and may we have that same love for you and for each other every day.



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NB

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I think you misunderstand the context of what this is saying...  Don't have that God like love for the world.. and if any man loves the world in a god like way then the god like love of the Father is not in him.  

Nothing wrong with agape here just saying we are not to have god like love for the world.

 

Peter shows that Balaams agape was bad.

 

1John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.



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Ed Sutton

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 Love to man is the earthward manifestation of the love of God.A It was to implant this love, to make us children of one family, that the King of glory became one with us. And when His parting words are fulfilled, "Love one another, as I have loved you" (John 15:12); when we love the world as He has loved it, then for us His mission is accomplished. We are fitted for heaven; for we have heaven in our hearts.  {DA 641.3}  

 

It is being overlooked in this modern era of higher criticism global view of understanding Scripture - that translators are NOT Bible writing Prophets.  Their definitions are not the end all be all.  Bible words, phrases, and passages - as part of context - and use there in the passage - and how the weight of the repetition of how Scripture uses them - actually defines the words.  And as SDA - Christ has supplied further defining explanations - His testifying - SOP.  

He the Author teaching worldwide in these last days - using Scripture + SOP ( His testifying ) like He did in the upper room for 40 days - to the group who committed themselves to Him. 

Genesis 27:4  And make me savoury meat, such as I love <0157>, and bring it to me, that I may eat; that my soul may bless thee before I die.

Genesis 27:9  Go now to the flock, and fetch me from thence two good kids of the goats; and I will make them savoury meat for thy father, such as he loveth <0157>:

Genesis 27:14  And he went, and fetched, and brought them to his mother: and his mother made savoury meat, such as his father loved <0157>.

0157 ahab aw-hab or aheb aw-habe 

 

a primitive root; v; {See TWOT on 29} 

 

AV-love 169, lover(s) 19, friend(s) 12, beloved 5, liketh 1, lovely 1, loving 1; 208 

 

1) to love 

1a) (Qal) 

1a1) human love for another, includes family, and  sexual 

1a2) human appetite for objects such as food, drink, sleep, wisdom 

1a3) human love for or to God 

1a4) act of being a friend 

1a4a) lover (participle) 

1a4b) friend (participle) 

1a5) Gods love toward man 

1a5a) to individual men 

1a5b) to people Israel 

1a5c) to righteousness 

1b) (Niphal) 

1b1) lovely (participle) 

1b2) loveable (participle) 

1c) (Piel) 

1c1) friends 

1c2) lovers (fig. of adulterers) 

2) to like 

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Before sin there was no evil to love that evil, and no disposition TO love evil.  The ability to love and be implanted with love and by love............... was part of God's gift to all his creatures that were able to think and feel and react.  Sin prostituted that gift to devote it's self to evil and pride and selfishness.

When the Bible language word for love describes love being focused and devoted to evil, the word by it's usage no longer shows that this instance of love or agape or philio or compassion is describing what comes from God, but rather the counterfeit and interposition of the Devil.  The ability and usage and focus and object of love is dedicated to something secular instead of sacred, or overtly sinful, in opposition to the call of God. 

***************************************************

Is the point and counter point interplay between the positive and negative sides of the issue of love - helping to understand the Great Controversy struggle carried out upon and toward and within the humanity of Christ on Earth?   

Satan sought to interpose everywhere continually, as Jesus clung to father God continually. 

 

 



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Ed Sutton

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Love to man is the earthward manifestation of the love of God.  It was to implant this love, to make us children of one family, that the King of glory became one with us. And when His parting words are fulfilled, "Love one another, as I have loved you" (John 15:12); when we love the world as He has loved it, then for us His mission is accomplished. We are fitted for heaven; for we have heaven in our hearts.  {DA 641.3}  

 When we reflect Christ's image, we shall love one another as He has loved us. We shall not love as we love our neighbor, but as Christ loved us. It is an advance to love as Christ loved. This is the perfection of Christian character. When we can say, My will is wholly submerged in God's will, then peace and rest come in.  {7MR 389.1}  

     We must have that love, else we cannot be perfect before God. We may be active, we may do much work, but unless we love as Christ loved, our candlestick will be removed out of its place. . . .  {7MR 389.2}  

     We have little enough of Christ's character. We need it all through our ranks, We must reveal that love which dwelt in Jesus. Then we shall keep the commandment [that we love one another], which not one in a hundred of those who claim to believe the truth for this time are keeping. . . .  {7MR 389.3}  

     Perfect unity must exist in a diversity of gifts. A union of all the gifts is essential. The one great commandment Christ has given is a new commandment. It reaches beyond loving our neighbor as we love ourselves. We are to love one another, "as I," said Christ, "have loved you." This experience must be obtained by every child of God. All must blend together in the work, thus making the work not onesided, but a complete whole.--Letter 121, 1898, pp. 6-8. (To S. N. Haskell and wife, December 12, 1898.)   {7MR 389.4}  

***********************************************

Sometimes love has nice feelings - but often does not.

Always Love is built and acts according to God's Principles.

Always Love is a decision.......... often in opposition to conflicting feelings.  Always following God's Principles, commands, mission, where God is leading - or such love does not come from God. 

Much of what is called God's love or love from God in today's world did not and never will - come from God.



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Ed Sutton

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This is the nail and razor blade studded arena Jesus came to live in , human, naked, barefoot, utterly dependent upon Father God - for our sake's risking His entire existence and eternal life, all creation, and God's Throne, trembling in the balance.



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Anonymous

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Isaiah 53:

1 ¶  Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

2  For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3  He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 ¶  Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5  But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6  All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7  He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8  He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9  And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 ¶  Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11  He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12  Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

 



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webmaster

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Let's explore if "agape" can mean "God-like love" as modern-day scholars like to teach.

Luke 6:32 For if ye [God-like love] them which [God-like love] you, what thank have ye? for sinners also [God-like love] those that [God-like love] them.


Even if there were no other examples, this one above should be enough to put to rest the notion that somehow "agape" is a "God-like" love.


Luke 11:43 Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye [God-like love] the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets.


John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men [God-like loved] darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.


The above example shows how ridiculous this idea of "agape" meaning "God-like love" is.


2Timothy 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having [God-like loved] this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.


2Peter 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who [God-like loved] the wages of unrighteousness;


1John 2:15 [God-like Love] not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man [God-like love] the world, the [God-like love] of the Father is not in him.

Jesus uses "agape" the first 2 times in talking to Peter in John 21.  Then he changes to "phileo" the last time.  I believe the teaching that this is very significant, is similar to the "sacred-name" people's teaching that you have to pronounce the name of God just right to receive his blessing, i.e.; it is close to being like black magic.

Perhaps others have not been taught that "agape" equals "God-like love", but that is what i've read and heard over and over again.  If anyone has a different interpretation, please inform us.



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NB

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you are misapplying the word

when we love the world or anything else more than we love God then it is wrong.....doesn't mean that the word is wrong it is the application of it towards the world and worldly things that is wrong



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Gibs

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I find no problem with agapao love or phileo love.  Actually to look up the Greek for agapao it sends you to check 5368  which is phileo.

agapao ag-ap-ah'-o
perhaps from agan (much) (or compare 5689); to love (in a social or moral sense):--(be-)love(-ed). Compare 5368.

See Greek [Undefined Strong's number5689]
See Greek 5368


phileo fil-eh'-o
from 5384; to be a friend to (fond of (an individual or an object)), i.e. have affection for (denoting personal attachment, as a matter of sentiment or feeling; while 25 is wider, embracing especially the judgment and the deliberate assent of the will as a matter of principle, duty and propriety: the two thus stand related very much as 2309 and 1014, or as 2372 and 3563 respectively; the former being chiefly of the heart and the latter of the head); specially, to kiss (as a mark of tenderness):--kiss, love.

It appears the word is used a lot and not many have not the God like Love or there would be greater obedience.  I see not a lot of difference between the meanings of the tow terms.

Of course none can equal the Love of God.  Real love does no wrong, it is truth and justice and works to please and help.  God like, but not equal.



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