Vance Ferrell and his stupid remarks on music.

Date: Apr 22, 2010

RE: Vance Ferrell and his stupid remarks on music.

Date: Jul 22, 2010

Hi Daniel,
I just read your article and it's saddening to note that all the things you confidently decleared as being fanatisism have actually come to happen; the American economy did crumble in fall of 2008 and yes the Jesuits are rulling. you should have checked your criticism. God Bless

Date: Aug 25, 2010

Hi James,

The A & P errors that you saw in Vance's book could be a typo. Have you talked to him regarding that? Being an author myself I can tell you it is very easy to make stupid mistakes like that. Writing for Wiley I have great editors that picks up at least 90% of my typos but they still miss some and as I look back at my own work I can see errors like nanometer (nm) printed as micrometer (um), a whopping 3 orders larger! A person in my field of expertise would think I am an idiot, for these days the microchip critical dimensions are no larger than 28nm! Now that is straight forward, then there are the complex equations and there is where we spent most of our time trying to make sure they are correct and sometimes at the expense of looking over the nm typos.

As someone has said if you do agree with the gist of his message, rather than condemn him as incompetent, lift up his hands and provide your area of expertise so he can bring a meaningful message out there for others who may have a problem with this issue. You have also mentioned that you do not have a problem rock music leading you down the slippery slope, I would say praise the Lord for that as you are the 1% that is at the other end of the gaussian curve. What about those normal people like yours truly? I grew up with the Beatles music and it took me a long time to wean from that music. There are music that draws demons and there are music that repel them and it is very clear in scripture. This is very clear and if you do believe that there is good and evil music than be a part of the solution help him rewrite it with better technical accuracy, unless ofcourse you truly don't believe in the message and is trying to tear it down.

You mentioned clinical trials, I would caution that not all data from such trials are reliable as well. There have been some trials done by others which is out there if you have access to some of the peer reviewed medical journals, you can search for it. I have a list somewhere which I can dig up later if you like.

The objective in writing you is to enlist you to join forces with Vance's out there to provide technically accurate warning to others regarding this issue. I pray that you would help out so others can benefit from your competence in this area.

God bless,

BW

Date: Sep 1, 2010

One cannot really believe that Brother ferrell is being attacked for holding himself faithfully to the adventist faith. Mr James brown please renthink your christianity.

Date: Sep 4, 2010

After reading this thread, I believe that the original message to Mr. Ferrell should not have been aired openly, but that that it should have been addressed to Vance Ferrell directly, thereby reflecting Christian conduct.

Concerning rock music in the church, another well written book on the subject is the one written by Carol and Louis Torres, Notes on Music, a treatise on the physiological, emotional and spiritual effects of music.

After I read this book, I firmly believe that we as members of the SDA church, should steer away from listening to pop, gospel and religious music, containing pronounced rhythm in these types of music. The reason for this is that this rhythm originates from ancient pagan rituals (as far back as the ancient Egyptian civilization), the pronounced rhythm being used to conjure spirits from the spirit world.

1Thessalonians 5:21,22 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Date: Oct 12, 2010

This will be a short and late response but nevertheless, here it is. How sad that a young man can be so misguided yet consider himself correct. It is obvious that he speaks with an arrogance that is fit for one his age. Time will cure that if he has GOD on his side. Unfortunately, in attacking someone for doing Satan's work it is obvious that he is actuated by the same spirit that he is accusing Mr. Ferrell of working with. How much better would it have been for him to express the corrections in a christian manner that might even lead to a corrected and more powerful book by Mr. Ferrell.
As for his comments on relationship to Christ and the Holy Spirit leading, this simply shows how far from the actual Gospel this poor young man is. Faith comes by hearing and that by the word of God. I have studied the Bible for a number of years and have never seen the quote that says the relationship saves. Faith in Christ saves and the works are there as a product and evidence of that living faith. Too many books have been written on this subject for me to say more.

Date: Oct 24, 2010

Bible truth and protestantism started as 'conspiracy theory' against the mainstream then-"christians". Now we thank God for people like Luther, Calvin, Huss, Jerome, Zwingli, now Ellen White if you believe in SoP. But now some her writings in Spirit of Prophecy may sound like 'conspiracy theory' as they seem to be against SDA's own mainstream churches--therefore we thank God for people like Vance Ferrell for exposing what would've otherwise been hidden in our churches--such as tithe truth, leadership, SDA history, etc, with references taken straight out of EGW's writings. Is satan working inside our churches? of course. Let's not be too quick to judge anyone, let Holy Spirit speak to your hearts, check every spirit against the Scriptures.

Regardless of the difference on EGW-era music and now, I believe we're still reminded by Ferrell's writings/compilation of EGW's statements to stand firm in not conforming to the world, and not designing our worship methods to our musical preferences, or to even gain favors from youth, outsiders, etc. Submit ALL of your desires to HIM and let HIM sort them out. Btw, music in worship shouldn't be more than studying the Scripture itself.

I'm myself born-SDA, yet a recent reborn- in Christ after years of living in darkness, ex-rock/heavy metal fanatic regardless the fact i grew up playing music in church too, piano and brass. Even after reconversion, still struggling with this issue of music preferences in church as well for a decade because of my love of rock, until i succumbed to a different calling to teach bible. I'm happy now seeking HIM only and rediscovering the old- style music in simple hymnal, and yearning more and more of HIS words than pursuing musical interests.

Date: Mar 21, 2011

I'm an elder in the Adventist church. I try to read the Bible as objectively as I can and that's why I'm an Adventist. The church teaches what the Bible does when read prayerfully and objectively. I am a firm believer in Ellen White as a prophet also. In all my study I never saw a musical instrument in the Bible condemned as evil or devoted exclusively to evil purposes. Pastor Neuman's treatment of the tamborine (drum) in the Bible I found to be a classic arguement of silence (he said the tambourine in the sanctuary was never permitted) and his treatment of Psalm 149 and 150 to be without good justification. I've never read a single Ellen White statement where it was clear that was her point, either. The same goes for musical genres in both the Bible and Ellen White. I read all the statements on this page http://www.angelfire.com/yt/christianrockdefense/quotes.html and not one of them makes a sweeping denunciation of musical genres. They condemned the wrong use of music (to her music includes the vocals and lyrics which is clear). Now she says there is a way to abuse music and the Bible says that too (Dan. 3) however it would be a major leap in logic to condemn whole musical genres because of that fact. That, without justification, excludes the possibility that individual "rock" instrumental scores and rythms could be put to good use while others are not. In Dan. 3 it says that Babylon uses "all kinds of music." Therefore if someone says, "what Babylon uses for music in its worship I will not use" they can only honestly discard with music altogether. Note that In the case of the holy flesh movement she says that before the end of time that "there will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing." This statement alone should not be taken to condemn drums or dancing because if it did it would condemn music also since it is in the same list. The Bible says we can praise God with percussion instruments and dancing (Psalm 149:3) however there is a style of dancing today that does not resemble what the Bible talks about in positive terms. Ellen White called the holy flesh revivals a "bedlam" of noise with "confusion" and "tumult*" In describing a similar event she said that "one could not tell what was piped or what was harped" (2SM 34.1). All of this is in clear violation of 1 Cor. 14:40. To take these statements and apply them to whole musical genres again needs very proper justification. We must not ignore the possiblity that there is a proper way to apply the rock music genre so that it is done without a "bedlam" of noise. Maybe tone the volume down, which common sense and medicine both say hurt the body when it is too high. In the scene of the youth playing the "frivolous ditty" it is clear that music in that passage means the vocals also. She does not openly say that whatever genre they were using was inherently bad. One can safely conclude that the music was not intended to be performed for church and their time spent practicing it was wasted. If I spend 9 hours a day practicing a secular Johnny Cash song on my guitar I'm wasting Heaven's time. If I know I'm not going to ever play that song to uplift someone I would rather not learn it. We must be wise as serpents and not use the same faulty logical procedures as those who advocate that Acts 20:7 teaches Sunday worship in the NT church, for instance. I invite everyone who claims to espouse the Bible as their only rule of faith and practice and Ellen White as God's inspired messenger for the last days to examine this issue objectively and without personal prejudice.

*These unreferenced statements are found on that webpage

Date: Apr 12, 2011

To James BOWEN

I understand the way you feel but to disrespect an older man because you hold different opinions to his is also unchristian. The fruit of the the spirit is gentleness, longsuffering etc and you also need to work on them. I commend your being concerned because i have read many books that Vance has written and attacked people without balanced understanding because maybe he believes everyone has gone apostate. e.g. Roger Moneau ` s books. I loved his commentry on Bacchiocchi though. Vance should research more so as to be more accurate but He is doing a great work for the Lord through his tracts and written work. I hope he not only attacks people but prays for those He feels are in error. It is his duty and mine too.

T.M

Date: Sep 2, 2011

I know this post is old but I found James' arguments to be very intelligent to say the least. You SDA's aren't the only ones who have books against rock music. But as James pointed out much of it is just ridiculous and based on bad information and lies. I personally don't like the new music in the churches (I am speaking of non-SDA churches) and most of the older people don't (People 45 plus). For one thing its just TOO loud - hurts my ears. I don't like it at all. I think its just personal taste upon my part but I'm used to the good old hymns.

But reading this thread it saddens me that so many people don't seem to have the logic to understand what this very intelligent college student was saying. It seems to be over their heads. I really appreciate your post, James.

Date: Dec 26, 2011

Is there webmaster yet to clean-up spam?

I recommend Brian Neumann's "Voices of a Dying Planet".

I think that I've read Carol and Louis Torres, Notes on Music before years.

Amazing facts center of evangelism & Little Light Ministries's "Battlefield Hollywood" was eye-opening too for me, despite it's not about music.

Also I've learn some things from Amazing facts & Weimars's "Sonic Warfare" by Ivor Myers but wasn't enough for me. Neumann's is more detailed.

Date: Dec 29, 2011

Check out Karl Tsatalbasidis' book titled, Drums, Rock and Worship - Modern Music in Today's Church. It touches on many of the points raised in these comments in support of Mr. Ferrell's position on the dangers of rock and roll music.

Your position is obviously slanted towards the fact that you grew up playing music and have formed an opinion based on that, but if you take a step back and view it objectively, you'll see the dangers of these types of music, how they originated and where they're leading God's people...to continued separation from Him.

In Christ,

Andrew

Date: Jan 12, 2012

Proverbs 17:14 The beginning of strife [is as] when one letteth out water: therefore leave off contention, before it be meddled with.

What does this mean? The Hebrew word letteth out water is to urinate. Once you start, you cant stop. When contention starts you cannot stop it, youve wounded them. There is alienation in the church and friendships are ripped. The Bible says, before you start to contend anything be careful because you cant stop it. Leave it off. If you are stirred to put in a comment, leave it alone. The hearts of your friends are alienated. There is disunity underneath, even if it is not apparent to the face. We are working against Christ. There is a principle in the following versus that we need to understand.

1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

What is the difference? One suggests a balloon, something filled up with air; empty. The other suggests a good strong building. What does knowledge do? Puffs up. Love builds. Knowledge is important. It is important to know what is right and wrong. We can be destroyed by lack of knowledge. But it tends to puff up. Give all diligence; add to your faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge and charity, love. Which one is the mature Christian the one that has knowledge or the one that has love? We can know all the doctrines and still be immature. To grow up is to get this element from God that does the building, which is love. When someone knows everything, they can do more damage than those who dont know anything. There is danger in knowledge, but that doesnt mean we must not get it. We have to be careful of the danger in getting knowledge. The adversary wants to get the smartest Christian. He wants to make that person puffed up.

Proverbs 13:10 Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised [is] wisdom.

If were not proud, then we wont have contention. Christ wasnt proud, and he didnt have contentions. He didnt argue. He gave an answer and then walked off. Look to Jesus and learn how it should be done.

1 Corinthians 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

If anyone thinks they know it, he doesnt really know it because it needs to be implemented in love.

The above adapted from the link below.

http://sabbathsermons.com/2011/11/26/church-contentions/#more-11840

(Brothers this is not the proper way of addressing the truth, James lets stop contending against one another. Bashing(as you put it) Vance won't help in the cause of the truth but the evil one would take advantage. True you are knowledgable in the field of music but if that knowledge is wrong applied may cause damage than good. Take care brother and may our heavenly father richly bless you as you further your studies in music)

Date: Jul 6, 2012

James, you are a good person and do love the LORD, but when it comes to the matter of music, I think that you need to do a deep study with the guidance of the Holy Spirit and not try to bash those who have done their own study of music. We must be careful of how we go about showing Christ character to God's children, because how we act and what we say can either bring people to Christ or push them away from HIM. It is okay not to agree with people, but remember to show love and compassion to one another. "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." JOHN 16:13 Have an awesome one brother in Christ! I know that God is going to use you in awesome ways to spread the gospel to HIS children and HE will use your talent of music for God's awesome purposes. Many Blessings fellow brother in Christ!

Date: Jan 2, 2013

Do any of you really know or have read the comments of Mr Vance Ferrell in his publications?

He has continually slandered numerous individuals ... the only one who has really shown him up for

what he is was Dr Lorraine Day. Enough said.

Date: Dec 23, 2013

nobody is perfect yet. but either we are working for God or we are not. we all make mistakes. who is perfect cast the first stone. what we need to look at is the overall message, is it true and does it uplift God. grammatical errors, or medical errors is irrelevant. all you sin Sympathizers will feel the wrath of God if you don't repent.

look within yourself are you a Sin Sympathizer, then you are not with God. I am sure that Ferrell makes mistakes and continue to make them. but that is no excuse for Bashing anyone. the last time I heard from supposed Christian that he needs to bash all the people at our local church, it turns out that this person is demon possessed.

and guess what he is my husband. I would not lie.

God be my judge.

be careful my dear brilliant student, all that learning will profit you nothing without LOVE

Date: Feb 26, 2014

hello l am not a music specialist, neither have l read vance ferrell's book on music but l want to say boyen was rather srude to brother ferrell

l wonder if she is christian at all other wise she should have stated her arguement politely without shaming ferrell

to boyen l must say you need to tone down and have a meek spirit sister, correst your brother you must but in a spirit of christian

humility

thank you from zimbabwe

Date: Mar 3, 2014

Anonymous wrote:
hello l am not a music specialist, neither have l read vance ferrell's book on music but l want to say boyen was rather srude to brother ferrell

l wonder if she is christian at all other wise she should have stated her arguement politely without shaming ferrell

to boyen l must say you need to tone down and have a meek spirit sister, correst your brother you must but in a spirit of christian
humility
thank you from zimbabwe

hello 'from zimbabwe'

as far as music goes we do have to be careful.... we must make sure that the words of the songs are reflecting Christ and do say something to our hearts or are praiseworthy.

we must also make sure that there are no low tone frequencies because they can be damaging to the frontal lobes... the strong drum beats are hypnotizing and bad for us too... the higher tones are better and sweet harmony as fragrance

Date: Mar 4, 2014

It is the low sensual beat that arouses the lower passions as in Rock Music and some other. Sensuality today is the in thing for those not of God.

Good music elevates the our spirit to God.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Date: Nov 8, 2014

I just read Vance Ferrell's book and I totally agree with you. It's sad that there are people who believe this crap. I don't want to shut out his way of thinking, I'm for peace, not badgering people, but seriously, I don't understand how people like this exist. Not trying to be mean or anything but his book doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Date: Oct 24, 2015

Young man your letter was interesting, however, it must be noted that the General Conference of Seventh Day Adventists has been totally turned on it's head by the beast of Revelation as has all of Protestism for that matter for several decades. The Adventist Faith is no more adhered to and followed than is the "Christian" faith by the Church of Rome or the Catholic Church. As you may know, the Beast got it's power from the Dragon or Satan himself. I've seen and heard the kind of music, if you can call it that, the General Conference supports in it's churches and it is a total disgrace to our Creator. I'm sure it must please Satan immensely. The Nazis taught facisim to their young people to promote their cause as did the Communists to support theirs. It's the same today, once great Christian schools that taught TRUTH are now being used by the devil himself to promote his form of death and distruction. I would suggest you read "Truth Triumphant" and get acquainted with it's author as well as the 1888 Great Controversy. We are in the last days and the battle is raging all around us. Many are so consumed by the world that they are totally oblivious to it but those who are following The Saviour are well aware of the battle and have shouldered their crosses and are doing all in their powers with the Grace of God to follow Him.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Unadulterated Adventism, that is Adventism prior to the death of Ellen White, is founded on Biblical Truth. All else is nothing less than the work of Satan himself.

Choose your sources of study well and study hard. Your destiny depends on it.

God Bless,

A Christian Friend,

Bob

P.S. I grew up as a Catholic searching for TRUTH !!!

Date: Oct 24, 2015

Anonymous wrote:
Young man your letter was interesting, however, it must be noted that the General Conference of Seventh Day Adventists has been totally turned on it's head by the beast of Revelation as has all of Protestism for that matter for several decades. The Adventist Faith is no more adhered to and followed than is the "Christian" faith by the Church of Rome or the Catholic Church. As you may know, the Beast got it's power from the Dragon or Satan himself. I've seen and heard the kind of music, if you can call it that, the General Conference supports in it's churches and it is a total disgrace to our Creator. I'm sure it must please Satan immensely. The Nazis taught facisim to their young people to promote their cause as did the Communists to support theirs. It's the same today, once great Christian schools that taught TRUTH are now being used by the devil himself to promote his form of death and distruction. I would suggest you read "Truth Triumphant" and get acquainted with it's author as well as the 1888 Great Controversy. We are in the last days and the battle is raging all around us. Many are so consumed by the world that they are totally oblivious to it but those who are following The Saviour are well aware of the battle and have shouldered their crosses and are doing all in their powers with the Grace of God to follow Him.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Unadulterated Adventism, that is Adventism prior to the death of Ellen White, is founded on Biblical Truth. All else is nothing less than the work of Satan himself.
Choose your sources of study well and study hard. Your destiny depends on it.

God Bless,
A Christian Friend,
Bob
P.S. I grew up as a Catholic searching for TRUTH !!!

good post

Date: Jun 2, 2016

[video=https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNomdEoen2NU3QS5OCJFhSclfNDTv4d6x] Check out this link... It's on music.

Date: Jun 23, 2016

looks good

Date: Aug 27, 2016

I love music. I was raised traditional SDA where secular radio music was banned. But I eventually had access to it once I hit high school and I absorbed it rather quickly. Thanks to my upbringing, I never appreciated heavy drum/metal but I started to believe soft drums and percussions had to be heavenly. Surely sounds of rain and thunder were natural music. Then I taught choir, from my elementary age to post graduate age. THen I backslid and went all out with the world and its sin and its music. Then I personally discovered its deadly destiny and I desperately reached out for the lifeline to overcome sin. Long struggle. Now I thank God for no condemnation to them who walk in the Spirit. And the music? I am still searching for a Christian drum enthusiast with a touching testimony, who lifts up God in His music, who visibly humbles himself and exalts God in worship and adoration. So far, drum promoters (and electric guitar enthusiasts and crooners, and the "complex" musicians that I have met don't really speak much about the Word and His word. On the contrary, "simple musicians" have a better tendency to hide themselves and lift HIM up, and heaven seems closer in the gentleness of their music. Maybe I am just not a lucky one to meet the highly spiritual "modern" musician. Or Vance Ferrell may actually be "mostly" accurate with his dig on heavenly music in terms of Biblical congruence. Maybe someone could point me to a Christian rock artist obviously being used by the Spirit to magnify the Father and promote holiness to privileged listeners.

Date: Aug 28, 2016

Joe Mann wrote:
I love music. I was raised traditional SDA where secular radio music was banned. But I eventually had access to it once I hit high school and I absorbed it rather quickly. Thanks to my upbringing, I never appreciated heavy drum/metal but I started to believe soft drums and percussions had to be heavenly. Surely sounds of rain and thunder were natural music. Then I taught choir, from my elementary age to post graduate age. THen I backslid and went all out with the world and its sin and its music. Then I personally discovered its deadly destiny and I desperately reached out for the lifeline to overcome sin. Long struggle. Now I thank God for no condemnation to them who walk in the Spirit. And the music? I am still searching for a Christian drum enthusiast with a touching testimony, who lifts up God in His music, who visibly humbles himself and exalts God in worship and adoration. So far, drum promoters (and electric guitar enthusiasts and crooners, and the "complex" musicians that I have met don't really speak much about the Word and His word. On the contrary, "simple musicians" have a better tendency to hide themselves and lift HIM up, and heaven seems closer in the gentleness of their music. Maybe I am just not a lucky one to meet the highly spiritual "modern" musician. Or Vance Ferrell may actually be "mostly" accurate with his dig on heavenly music in terms of Biblical congruence. Maybe someone could point me to a Christian rock artist obviously being used by the Spirit to magnify the Father and promote holiness to privileged listeners.

Scott Ritsema has done a lot of study on this and has very good presentations and he is not afraid to talk about anything. All is important to him. Media and the brain is the title. He covers all areas.

There is another that focuses only on the music...Christian Berdahl...check out these two men that have done much research and come to the realization that we must guard our brains/hearts very carefully.

we become what we behold...

Date: Apr 16, 2017

Didn't the US economy started collapsing in 2008? Be careful and prayerful for God to open your eyes

Date: Apr 17, 2017

Anonymous wrote:
Didn't the US economy started collapsing in 2008? Be careful and prayerful for God to open your eyes

original SOP is clear... the real collapse will happen during the peak of time when God's people cannot buy or sell...

for those that have prevented His people, God will put the same upon the evil ones... THEN will be the collapse... it might be during the Loud Cry

Date: Oct 29, 2018

The question is over word usage, using stupid has no meaning other than the writer slandering another person in this title of the email or reply,

This is how people that can not argue against the truth defame character, or attack one's character, Brother Vance has done more to uplift truth than 99% of Adventists I would say or more, I have met him and love all they do.

I share the truth as well so I know something about it, I have a 2 page publication to help people avoid this trap of Satan, that has the basic history of rock music, simply put if you want to be saved daily avoid worldly everything music for sure worldly rhythms, all drums and drum set use electric guitars generally, Oliver Coronado is an expert that speaks out on this online, YouTube. Also David Gates who is a watchman that has many connections to what is going on. We are not to set dates, however trends and dates the enemy sets like next year for the Sunday Law in Vatican documents is their plan as God permits, so I would certainly get a place in the country debt free or a place with friends or family lined up, can be outside the US as it looks very rough for the US see Deagle.com, all the indicators are in Huge Financial Crisis stock Market to collapse likely, martial law/civil war, Sunday Law and before possible SDA purging of the faithful remnant from the Corporate Church Structure Worldwide in preparation for Sunday Sacredness and forced Sunday attendance in SDA churches, the SOP is denied and can be controlled, edited, etc. as they did with the GC/The Great Hope---a Jesuit Fingerprint for all to see---yes the Jesuits control all, all central banks, USA-CFR, etc. See Rulers of Evil F. Tapper Saussy for the proof, the US was Jesuit controlled from day 1, the White house was built by Jesuit Andrew White, Jesuit trained Daniel Carroll owned the land of Wash DC all but 5 of the founders were masons, there are over 1 Million Baptist Masons, the Jesuits call their Protestant Army, the US "Christian" Nation was placed against Communism Worldwide with Jesuit controlled CIA secret ops worldwide, Vietnam was a Jesuit operation, planned way in advance 1st UN war to crate a Catholic Superpower in Asia, A trained Catholic Dictator was installed and killed over 1 million locals 50K Americans died, drugs were introduced to the US and the Hippie Movement also Jesuit led with McSorley the Beatles brought in Eastern Religion, John Paul 2 declared that Spiritual Formation would be their tool to bring the world in submission to themselves---they were totally sold out Devil controlled READ The Enemy Unmasked for diabolical early Jesuit History, also 2 Babylons, that proves the RCC is Nimrod Worship--same as the Jews were doing women weeping to Tammuz now lent and Rick Warrens book has got some SDA's keeping lent---it's the same evil just look at the details Rick's references--Norman Vincent Peale was 33 degree mason. The rulers place those into fame and power that are corrupt and sold out to further the deceptions like gay Elton John he says all his songs are from spirits (demons) the SDA Church is lost, the Testimonies of Jesus say the structure will go deeper and deeper into apostasy until the end---that is what we see and have many trapped/deluded with Spir. Formation, worldliness inside ecumenical prostitutes is what the leaders and pastors are that are forced to be quiet about any apostasy issue or leader is in the church manual I believe or simply an unwritten law, the BEM WCC signing in 1982 celebrated the full takeover of the GC/leaders so they could do what they have done and keep their slaves into the top offices and committees-SF was done by committee and the ecumenical crime hymnal, etc. Wash DC is said to have a Catholic on all top committees, is all set up before hand, the cardinal over Wash DC is said to control all there---and they can't even throw him out or in jail due to the allowance of pedophilia even brutal child sex abuse---see Kate Griggs the military uses it to create subservient leaders in leaders children, etc. likely same satanic plan to create generational slaves to Satan in the 'church'..the Wash DC church has huge cells 3 levels in the basement and was recently built---they want the inquisition back maybe this is what the 10 Kings over the world will see and stop burning Rome, God will only allow about 2 weeks of this NWO full control, they are hell bent on severe persecution of protestant strong holds like Germany with Hitler, etc. same with Stalin who killed many many millions of Orthodox Jews, Christians and Nationalistic Catholics even---see Hitler joined with the Jesuit Zionists where all the money came from--and he wiped out the orthodox Jews that held to the original interpretations of scripture not the demon inspired ones--the Babylonian Talmud is serious--Kabbalism--they even learn curses, etc. is also witchcraft---Rev 18:23 by their sorceries have they deceived the nations by Spir. Form but also medical drugs vs natures herbs, hydrotherapy #1 in Healing and Prevention, Charcoal, Clay is perfect for pain and inflammation, chemicals work against God's intricate systems creating many more problems and diseases so they just keep making more money to war against Christianity worldwide, popularize everything sinful/pagan, legalize sin...God is in control, each person has the freedom to choose to be led of God or deceived into slavery of evil, I hope all of you choose to Serve God Fully out of Love and share the Full Gospel all you can, God desires to lead us individually in our lives and outreach, all sanctified. To end the US has been used to fund and to take over the world for the Jesuits with their fake Catholic Church is 90% Pagan the pagan gods were changed to saints with a better sounding name, Monsanto/Bayer had a kick back $78 Million dollar suit over cancer from Roundup--to open 800 Billion is future liabilities!!!!!! God is bringing justice in many ways I understand the world is very deceived now and weak---most all Christians are devoid of God's supernatural protections as they are apostate and follow the enemy in ignorance as sheep--all by design because they know a true Christian God can protect against any weapon--so the push to get all in apostate union so all are weak and lost Satan's master plan, once SL starts SDA need to choose soon who to serve, most are not ready with a country place/refuge--by design to try to stop the Latter Rain and Loud Cry, that will be great led by God directly, after it is going Satan will appear as Christ and claim Sunday is the day, etc. with miracles the 144K also will do true miracles and their faces with shine the honest will know it's of God---many will stand with them--God holds the winds until all are fully decided who to serve then the plagues will fall on the wicked only, and Satan will be allowed to plunge this world into real trouble--maybe a civil war in the US then, WW3 in the middle east??? All the greek gods are in the US Capital Dome with Washington as a deified Apollos the top god and on the top is a goddess. I was in the White House once and was inspired to look a little off the route and something happened maybe a spirit checked me--since they took out Lincoln all were controlled--Lincolns wife was into spiritualism even---The Good news is we have nothing to fear as we stay fully submitted to God's Will each new day overcoming in Christ's Faith and power all wrong and doing great things fr the real kingdom, I hope to meet reformers from my family lines in heaven!!!!!

Date: Nov 11, 2018

While I agree that "stupid" should not have been used, this thread originator had some pertinent points to make.

Alan Grove, you are deep into ridiculous conspiracy theories, which is much more problematic than to just language usage.

I reject basically everything you write, and want it to be known that this type of anti-USA government conspiracy nonsense is NOT what we SDAs stand for, and in fact, have been expressly warned by our prophet (Ellen White) to avoid, as it will make us not be able to give a proper witness for Jesus at the end time, because people will point to these ridiculous writings by SDAs, and lump us all together as ridiculous conspiracy anti-govt. people who aren't following the Bible.

Please repent, Alan, and follow Jesus.