Post Info TOPIC: Vance Ferrell and his stupid remarks on music.
James Bowen

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Vance Ferrell and his stupid remarks on music.
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Dear Mr, Ferrell

After reading your book Inside Rock Music, I was utterly floored and had to email you.  Let me just introduce myself.  My name is James Bowen and I am a 19 year-old senior at Southern Adventist University.  I have studied piano and organ for well over 13 years of my life.  I am completing a degree in both music performance and Nursing.  I started college when I was 13 and have been blessed by the Lord to have played for hundreds of church services, competitions, weddings, funerals, graduations, and many other functions, and to have studied under some world-class teachers.  I first would like to begin this discussion by letting you know that you Sir are doing Satans work in this book.  Now I know that is rather inflammatory but when you attack Satan's music in such an ill prepared and downright uneducated way, it makes you and your few correct statements look like utter fallacies.  Just so you know, I personally do not listen to any of the music that you labeled in your book, However I must say that your rank misunderstanding is so sad that I felt I must confront you on it.  

1st.  Im going to start with probably your most blatant error, which is the description you had of the heart.  Now before a fiction writer such as yourself step into another individuals field, I suggest you arm yourself with truth and not crumbling lies.  You stated that the hearts ventricles contract during both systole and diastole with one going to the body and the other to the lungs.  This is flat out error!!  My A and P book will debunk you.  Diastole is ventricular relaxation!  So in music, much rock music actually has a base drum on beats 1 and 3 and a snare on 2 and 4.  Therefore it would compare to nature since the weaker beats fall during ventricular relaxation.  Second, I hated the single story you had of the girls EKG changing while she listened to the music.  Im curious if you even know what an EKG is.  However, what exactly were these so called EKG changes in this work of fiction?  A fib?  Flutter?  Tachycardia?  Bradycardia?  Do you even know what these words mean?  
2nd. I find your work full of fallacies and prejudices that were punctuated by the occasional truth.  Take for instance your statement about going from soft rock to hard rock and then heavy metal.  This is textbook slippery slope fallacy!  You weaken your own arguments and do the devils work.  If were going to talk slopes then what about Schoenbergs music that went from atonal to tonal, or maybe Hendrixs experimentation in his later years with classical music.  As to your Sad sad appendix of rock stars deaths, so I have news for you.  Bach is dead!  All sinners die!!!  Diabetes, Pneumonia, how does this connect to rock???  You mistake cause and effect constantly.  The cause of these things was not rock music but their lack of a relationship with Christ!
3rd.  I had to practically laugh when I read about your so called phantom tones.  These are overtones!!!!!  They occur in classical music and every other kind of music out there!  They are what distinguish flute sound from that of the violin or piano.  I sound them all the time when I play the organ.  If your gonna bash 7th chords then I have news for you!  Bach used 7th chords!  Yes!  Now we analyze them as a chord with a passing tone.  However, he did use these kinds of dissonances all the time.  In fact your lists of so called Bad music contains elements such as same key, no tempo, or volume changes is so stereotypical and has so so many artists which create glorious music such as Handel, Bach, even the Kings Heralds who fit these definitions of yours for bad music.  

I could not stand your explanation of luthers A mighty Fortress.  It is Bar form!  Not a bar song.  You did not explain this at all.  So it was the same form as the popular troubadour songs of the day!  So what about joyful joyful we adore thee?  That was a secular tune first!!    

I personally believe that the way to truly find the right listening music is not browsing through what Satans worshippers say, or browsing all the satanic literature and condemning them by what they say,  It is rather to have a relationship with Christ and let the holy spirit tell you what is wrong.  Let the word tell you.  You bold type your arguments in the same manner as the conspiracy theorists do.  In closing, there was so much more I could have bashed as blatent errors, misstatements, and downright lies.  However, I would like to caution you to leave the medical and musical writing to those of us who actually understand those things.  Well leave the fiction writing to you.
(edited by webmaster to remove one bad word in title)

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daniel

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James, This problem is all thru SDA ranks - talking about things we don't know about to "prove" a point.  While it is true that we should not be "sleepy Laodiceans", it is almost as bad to be "on fire" and say things that are untrue to try and explain a truth.  These things disgust rationale, thinking people, and make them turn away from the real truth when it is presented to them.

Unfortunately there are many, many of us who believe in conspiracy theories to various degrees.  I get email all the time from "on-fire" SDAs who are telling me that the US govt. is trying to control everybody, that the Jesuits are controlling the world, that the NWO is all over the place, that there are chemicals put in the water to brainwash us, that the black pope is pulling the strings, and now even David Gates is saying the world's economic system will collapse starting in America this fall of 2008.

Let's be careful to always tell the truth, because truth mixed with error is worse than outright error.

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Anonymous2

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OKay so reading the above, does this mean that we should throw out the whole book... I will tell you this.... What he wrote about is true. Rock n' roll does drap anyone down into the depths of sin. Anyone who listens to this type of music that I have seen eventually starts listening to harder and harder music until they are unconscious with it, and Drugs and Alcohol and Sex... So should we throw the Baby out with the Bathwater because of what you wrote? I don't think so....this music makes zombies out of those who listen to it... plain and simple.

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SDA

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James Bowen wrote:

Dear Mr, Ferrell

After reading your book Inside Rock Music, ...




 The spirit of your statements is not very different from that of demons...
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This reply edited by webmaster - Please don't quote the entire post.



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Anonymous

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Well, it's November 6, 2008.  I guess David Gates was pretty closeconfused

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Anonymous

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It's been a few months since you pounded this out, I do hope you have cooled down.  It would be nice if you would reconsider your original tone.  It is ok not to agree on everything, however to come across like you did in the name of Christ is exactly what the enemy wants and you have done it in a forum that will not go away.  I am certainly guilty of the same and I am not trying to condem you, I just wish you would reconsider and take some of the sting out of your message and next time try to pray before going ahead.

Remember, we measure everything next to Jesus.

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

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Anonymous

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David Gates was indeed correct. We have a financial tsunami in progress and only time will tell the end result.

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webmaster

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I have warned David Gates 2 times by email and once in person to stay away from economic prognostications.  Satan is setting him up to pull down many people and ruin all his work.  How so?  Because the GEAB report which he bases much of his economic ideas on is run by people who sometimes speak directly contrary to the Bible.  So they get lucky once, does that mean that we should follow them? 

I'm very concerned when i see any leader following those and paying attention to those who are fighting God.

May we spend our time and energies to spread the Three Angels' Messages.


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Grevicci

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Dear James,

    You prefaced your comments about Vance Ferrell's book by stating that you were/are a senior at SAU. It would have been nice if you would have left out the name of the university because your bashing [your own words] and the angry and rude words [to say the least, since, apparently, the webmaster had to edit a bad word in your comments] is a poor reflection on today's SDA insitutions in general. I, likewise, was utterly floored when I read YOUR comments and had to write YOU an email.
    Yes, I was utterly floored, but not totally suprised that our SDA institutions have become so acclamated with the world that I would never have guessed that you had gone to an SDA institution. Be that as it may, let's continue.
    I applaud you for accomplishing what you have at your young age-something that I never had the aptitude for but nothing prodigious enough that would make you an expert in the field as far as I'm concerned. My younger brother also studied piano and organ since he was a child and graduated with an international business degree. He now is in his 40's and lives/works in Europe and like you, has played in many different venues including playing for some large cathedrals there in Europe.
    So, what's my point? I would suggest to you to read in your Bible, James chapter 3. the entire chapter-it isn't a long chapter.
    I also hope that you are not adverse to reading what Ellen G White says about music. I have directed this email to you specifically since I would maybe have an inkling of hope that you might actually heed what a messenger of God would say on such a matter, based on the premise that you might have heard about her somewhere on the university campus. Others reading this comment are probably getting all hung up about Ellen G White being a prophet because they simply regurgitate what the hate-mongers say about her without learning for themselves. But let's not get tangential here. If you go to GOOGLE and type in "what ellen g white says about music" it should pull up a site that has wonderfully put up some comments concerning this issue. This is the link that should pull up. http://www.angelfire.com/yt/christianrockdefense/quotes.html
Perhaps also, you can read the book, Drums, Rock and Worship, that was authored by Karl Tsatalbasidis who was a professional rock and jazz musician and hear what he says about modern music and the place that it has, or doesn't have in the church today. There also, is a website called Audioverse.org at http://www.audioverse.org/displayspeaker/231/KarlTsatalbasidis/ that has some recording/sermons from Karl Tsatalbasidis as he talks about music. This would be a quicker way to hear what he says about music although his book has alot of information and would be nice to read.
These resources I have presented here to demonstrate to you and others that there is  "good" and a "bad" music in this world today and that there are types of music that ARE inappropriate to worship God with.
    In conclusion, apparently by your own admission you state that you personally don't listen to any of the music that is described in the book yet you proceed to tongue lash an author that has condensed in a book what many experts in various fields say about their specific field [just read the bibliography to know who these people are]. You are only inciting others to think ill of SDA's and to turn away those people that should be reading this book. Perhaps, if it was only one line in this book that could make someone question in their own minds and to get them to look into what they believe, then wouldn't such a book be worth it? You make it sound that because you feel that something is misstated-let's say about heart ventricles-that this book is of no value whatsoever. You even state that it may even be of demons? Do you really think that James? If so, I think that you haven't read James chapter 3 yet.
    In closing, finally, there was so much more I could have said but just didn't have the time to say. You made a cautionary statement in your conclusion so let me finish with a cautionary statement of my own: I'll leave the musical talent, the song writing, and the Holy spirit guided piano/organ playing [I'm not going out on a limb by saying this I hope] to you but when it comes to being a good judge of a book--leave that to someone who complies with James 3:13-18.
    Hoping the best for you and your future...

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Anonymous

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Hello James,

I writing about Ferrell's errors you point out something crucial: That people should be pointed to Christ because then, they will KNOW what kind of music to listen to. I am a senior at SUNY Albany Univerisity and I am also a Seventh-day Advenstist, however, I was extremely shoked by your use of profanity to defend your position: Yes, overall you were right, however, what happened to good manners, or the fact that you have to respect your elders even when you disagree with them. Though you had many good things to say, unfortunately, because of the fact that you are Adventist you automatically have to respond to a higher standard even when somone makes you angry. Again, I'm not saying that christians do not become angry but is is how we act when agry that distinguishes us from people who do not hold the Bible as their final authority.

I think you will do well to write Mr. Ferrell and apology



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James Bowen

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Folks folks!! 

Hey after 10 months I had no idea anyone actually responded.  And after some thought I guess here is some clarification on what I think.  Personally I believe that the multitude of outright error in his book and lack of clinical evidence for his bold claims regarding the physiological effects or rock music leads to a very weak case.  I believe that drums, cymbals, and other instruments can be used in the christians music as to what David wrote in psalms.  As to what Ellen white says regarding a bedlam of noise and confusion.  I recommend you to read into the music during her time.  Specifically shaped note singing and listen.  Tell me if that is a bedlam or not.  What I'm saying is I actually view that more as a bedlam and not some of the christian rock so called today.  

The fact of the matter is that I believe the majority of what are supposed to be vance ferrel's strong points in his case against Christian rock music are huge weaknesses.  I believe there is a line but I don't believe we should throw the whole genre out.  That encompases way too much. 

Much of you spoke against the manner in which I presented my view.  Yet none offered any strong rebuttal to the point.  Which I am quite amazed.    You post some links and consider yourselves done?  I would agree it was a little strong.  Yet when I read inside rock music.  I found the entire book such an insult to truth and written in such a style as a conspiracy author or fanatic would that I could not hold my peace. . .

I may not listen to some of the musicians for example such as jimmy hendrix I am well aware of his style and many many other musicians had on music and I do listen to styles that may have been influenced by some of the musicians mentioned in book. 

Grevici.  Your speaker Karl Tsatalbasidis Lacked any clinical evidence for his bold claims.  He's supposedly quoting the professionals but never states many of his sources and again these are music professionals not scientists. . .  His claims of the beat only being the driving force behind rock music. . . uhhhh that would be rap.  Rock music's basic form calls for chords and a melody is huge part of rock music.  His information is not much better then vance ferrels.  Completely unfounded claims throughout.

Folks lets discuss facts and clinical evidence or hard science.  Lets discuss music influence, not falacies.

Listening to rock music does not lead to death metal, sex, drugs.  pure and simple slipperyslope fallacy mr anonymous.  (btw folks post your names don't hide behind anonymous junk) Oh and comparing me to demons????  Have you ever heard of Ad hominem???  I challenge everyone here to answer with truth and facts.  Don't just attack the speaker.

Again I'm proudly a senior at Southern Adventist University.  We learn real music and truth. 




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Sister in Christ

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1ad ho·mi·nem  Pronunciation:

\()ad-hä-m-nem, -nm\ Function: adjective Etymology: New Latin, literally, to the person Date: 1598
1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect 2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ad%20hominem

rock music

noun
a genre of popular music originating in the 1950s; a blend of black rhythm-and-blues with white country-and-western; "rock is a generic term for the range of styles that evolved out of rock'n'roll." [syn: rock 'n' roll

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rock%20music

  1. FREQUENCY:
    most people do not hear frequencies above 12,000 Hz or below 5,500 Hz, Low frequencies may be felt as vibrations.

    Very low frequencies have been found to encourage feelings of depression. Strong background base signatures encourage the development of addictive patterns by patterning a depression which solicits the positive foreground melody. Thus, we may listen to tunes obsessively which sensitize our unconscious awareness to lyrics we find negative, untruthful, or, distasteful --- IF, we were consciously aware of them.

     

  2. BEAT:
    increasing the beat tends to increase the heart rate of the listener; slowing the beat tends to decrease the heart rate of the listener. An increasing heart rate provides a feeling of excitement, fear, sexuality, involvement. A decreasing heart rate tends to stimulate feelings of relaxation, and, with persistence -- depression. A steady beat encourages a feeling of security.

    A beat of about 60 cycles per minute tends to synchronize with the heartbeat for many people and becomes semi-hypnotic. This factor is intentionally used in Rock Music --- to both involve the listener and synchronize the audience into a monolithic crowd with predictable responses.

     

  3. DENSITY:
    fast changing sound tends to create excitement at first, followed by tiredness, then by anger; slow changing sound tends to encourage relaxation, thoughtfulness, meditation, reverence.

    Rock Music intentionally uses fast changing melodies to encourage feelings of excitement in persons seeking relief from boredom, anxiety, and depression. The encouragement for self- and external involvement from fast changing melodies becomes overstimulating when unrestrained and predictably intensifies all of the negative emotional feelings it has been sought to provide distraction from.

     

  4. RHYTHM:
    provides a sense of movement, pattern, predictability; may add suspense, drama, sensuality, violence.

     

  5. TONE:
    a major determinant of acceptability

     

  6. REPETITION:
    semi-hypnotic, team-building, memory enhancing

     

  7. LOUDNESS:
    soothing, frustrating
    loud music can be used to distract the mind and provide escape from unwanted feelings of insecurity, anxiety, and depression. Loud music is also effective in strengthening the negative emotions of anger, hatred, jealousy, intolerance, frustration, and grief.

    Since the introduction of Walkman type semi-private and private transportable music systems to North America, the rate of and numbers of teenagers and young adults becoming deaf has steadily risen. Deafness IS effective at blocking out the world. It tends to be irreversible and preventable.

     

  8. LYRICS:
    subliminal, motivating, revealing,

    If you remember the melody, your subconscious remembers the lyrics. Do you know what the words are? Do you agree with and believe the words. Remember. Every time you listen to the music, you train your mind to accept the message of the lyrics ... UNLESS, you consciously tell your mind to block out or deny the meaning. http://www.earthtym.net/cure05.htm



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James Bowen

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Folks . . .  credible sources.  Dear sister in Christ, you present something from what I assume to be a website that someone put together as part of their health suggestions. . .  

Credible clinical evidence was lacking in regards to the cardiac effects.  Also your dictionary definition does not apply here since we are not talking about just rock and roll.  Rock music has gotten much broader and has much more influence on other styles then just the sex and drugs aspect.  I personally do not listen to rock music with the lyrics you speak of.  However, lyrics aside, I don't believe that many of the musical elements of rock and roll, which we find in many other styles are in and of themselves "Evil".

Your remarks on loud music and rhythm in characterizing them by strictly by the emotions of anger and evil are flat out the problem I have with vance ferrel and other music amatuers.  They attempt to categorize without any solid evidence or background.  This is lacking in scientific background and also leads to dangerous assumptions. 

My point is. . . quite frankly I believe there can be such a thing as Christian rock.  without the sex, drugs, violence.  Contemporary music throughout history has always been condemned.  The use of the drum, and tamborine (miriam folks!!) is fine.  I enjoyed a recent sermon by Brian newman where he talked about there supposedly being only 4 instruments allowed in the ot sanctuary.  God did switch it up for church.  So an atmosphere of reverance was called for.  However, that didnt mean that during the rest of the week or outside the sanctuary as Miriam did that these other instruments were banned. . . !!!!!!   I've found it hard to sit through church services with drums in them.  However, during the week and outside the reverance of the church, I've greatly enjoyed skillful use of them in song.  Last time I checked David said EVERYTHING that hath breath praise the lord.



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James Bowen

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He cannot get even basic heart anatomy and physiology right.   page 28 of inside rock music.   Not even correct definitions of systole and diastole.  (Where was the editor) how can we trust a guy who cannot even get basic A & P right??????????????????

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webmaster

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James wrote: "I found the entire book such an insult to truth and written in such a style as a conspiracy author or fanatic would that I could not hold my peace. . ."

That is the point i'm trying to make with my pointing out the problems with conspiracy theories -- these theories make normal, decent, thinking people rightly disgusted, and in consequence, they are less likely to accept the Three Angels' Message truth that we have.  My mixing truth with garbage, we turn some away from Christ who would have been happy to accept just the pure, straight, unvarnished truth.

Woe to the leaders who foul the waters.

James also wrote: "We learn real music and truth."
I pray you do James, but i do know that there is a lot of garbage being taught for truth at Southern Adventist University, altho perhaps not as bad as our other SDA universities.  I cannot think of one in the world i would happily send my child to (if i had a child).  Perhaps there is one in Africa or South America, as i haven't heard much from there, but everywhere else in the world, lots of garbage.  Mountain View College in the Philippines is the only one i can recommend at all, with reservations.

James, you are obviously a sincere seeker for truth, with vigor.  Let's work harder to imitate our perfect pattern - Jesus.  Wouldn't it be better to write like Jesus would, the straight truth with love?



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James Bowen

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I would agree with you in not muddying the waters.  Which is why I don't mean to do that by attacking ferrells book.  However, I just believe we should be more cautious then he is in presenting the truth on music. 

As to SAU. . . I actually would agree with you.  I believe I've learned many good things as far as music is concerned.  However, no university is perfect.  Personally I'm not a fan of sonrise every year where we have a dramatization of the passion.  It draws 10k people but they stay mostly for the show and not for Christ.  However, I must say despite the quirks here and there I must say I've been very impressed with the campus in comparison to where I've gone before.  public university.  Anyways, one time we had jullian england come and do a vespers.  She acted out her childhood abuse with fog, satanic voices taped over the speakers, and red lights. . . it was a shocker for the campus and of the 1000 plus vespers students. . . a good 1/3 to half walked out!!!  Praise God we have students here who act on principle!! 


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concerned

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Of course James Bowen is going to do everything he can to declare Ferrel's ifno on music to be error. To admit error and give up on 13 years of dedicating his life to music is far too difficult to do.

Pray for him.

FACT: Satan is the angel of MUSIC

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webmaster

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"concerned", Is your response in a Christian manner?

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Anonymous

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"James, This problem is all thru SDA ranks - talking about things we don't know about to "prove" a point.  While it is true that we should not be "sleepy Laodiceans", it is almost as bad to be "on fire" and say things that are untrue to try and explain a truth.  These things disgust rationale, thinking people, and make them turn away from the real truth when it is presented to them.

Unfortunately there are many, many of us who believe in conspiracy theories to various degrees.  I get email all the time from "on-fire" SDAs who are telling me that the US govt. is trying to control everybody, that the Jesuits are controlling the world, that the NWO is all over the place, that there are chemicals put in the water to brainwash us, that the black pope is pulling the strings, and now even David Gates is saying the world's economic system will collapse starting in America this fall of 2008."

Please make a point of reading The Bible & SOP and you'll notice that you are making erroneous comments on the jesuits controlling the world (Revelation16:14, 17:2, 12, 18; 18:3, 9: 19:19) and NWO... by the way, what do you understand by NWO??? E. G. White talks of a national sunday law in GC that would bring a new order in the world, whereby all will be required to rest on sunday only! Have ever read somewhere in Revelation where it is written no one could buy or sell save he "that hath the mark of the beast"? Dates error is clear in date fixing which we are warned against doing in SOP.

Maybe these people have been touching your comfort zones, the cherished and besetting sin (Hebrews12:1). Fact is, you need to fortify your minds with scriptural truths.

no

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Anonymous

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James, are you an SDA? The points you are raising don't sound Adventist. Have you ever read Deuteronomy12:31? Rock music is plain satanic... just like rap. Listen man, Matt12:30 is plain that "He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad." For "learned" folks you sound too ignorant of the devils wiles. I would that thou wert either hot or cold!

no

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Anonymous

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instead of denouncing Vance Ferrel's book, James should have given better suggestions on how to help people do away with rock music from their audio library, unless his intention is to 'save' rock music, or unless he loves rock music and wishes to defend it.no

Brother, that makes me think of those who denounced Miller and the message of that time (1840-1844) claiming that no man knoweth the hour, but God read the hearts. While it is not given for us to know the day nor the hour, we are urged to know how soon it is.

While we may be wrong, according to scholars like you, about the nitty-gritties of music, we are correct according to the Bible that Rock Music is evil and demonic, and shouldn't be listened to by human beings.

LS



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webmaster

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One of the main problems i see with this book by Vance Ferrel, is that while his conclusion that rock music is bad is 100% true, he makes many fallacious statements to support his assertion, thus causing some readers to reject his conclusion.

Comparing this book on music with the start of the last greatest messages ever given to humankind (1st and 2nd Angels' Messages with William Miller) is quite over the top in my humble opinion.



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LS

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Okay. Then somebody should contact him and kindly request him in a Christian spirit to 100% refute Rock Music while at the same time give accurate information that will win those whose who think correctly? The man (I don't know him personally) is trying hard to refute error and promote truth. He needs people to lift his hands up, who may not be able to write as he does.

LS

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webmaster

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Amen!

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Jamesbowen

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FOLKS IM WRITING THIS ON A IPHONE AND THE CAPS IS LOCKED SOMEHOW SO NOT TRYING TO BE RUDE..    ANYWAYS RIGHT ON WITH THE WEBMASTER..  I AGREE ROCK HAS ITS PROBLEMS BUT MY PROBLEM IS THE WAY VANCE USED HIS FALLACIES AND MISTHRUTHS MIXED WITH TRUTH.  SO I DONT LISTEN TO MOST ROCK.  ACTUALLY JUST ABOUT ALL.  MY LIBRARY HAS MOSTLY CLASSICAL.  MY PROBLEM IS WHEN YOU ATTACK ACTUAL MUSICAL ELEMENTS YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL. ITS VERY EASY TO CONDEMN ELEMENTS I  ROCK THAT WE FIND EVEN IN HYMNS.  I PERSONALLY ENJOY SOME OF CHRIS TOMLINS MUSIC THAT I FIND MUSICAL OR INATRUMENTAL INFLUENCES OF ROCK.  BUT I FIND THE MUSIC UPLIFTING AND IT DOES NOT INFLUENCE SEXUALLY AS VANCE WOULD LEAD US TO BELIEVE BUT RATHER INSPIRES ME TO SING ON MY DRIVE TO WORK AND I FIND MYSELF PRAYING AND BEING LIFTED UP TO GOD THROUGH MUSIC THAT ARGUABLY SOME COULD SAY HAS SIMILARITIES WITH ROCK.  THE PENTECOSTALS GO TO CHURCH DOES THAT MAKE IT EVIL JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ADVENTISTS?  ARE DRUMS AND GUITARS RIGHTLY USED AND I SAY RIGHTLY BECAUSE THEY CAN BE ABUSED I BELIEVE . ....GLORIFY GOD???  DID NOT PSALMS SAY EVERYTHING??  SOME OF THOSE INSTRUMENTS WERE RHTHYM INSTRUMENTS!!!  MAY GOD FORGIVE MY LACK OF TACT EVEN AS  PRAY HE FORGIVES VANCE FOR MISREPRESENTING MUSICAL ELEMENTS (NOT ROCK AS I WOULD AGREE INTHE EVILNESS OF IT)  THAT IN THEMSELVES CAN BE USED FOR GOOD.   ONE OTHER THING I WOULD CHALLENGE THE READER TO READ HIS DEFINITIONS FOR BAD MUSIC AND SEE HOW MANY OF OUR HYMNS FALL INTO HIS GUIDELINES!!!!

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james bowen

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interestingly enough as to ferrells other beliefs. . .  and in his defence. . .  I whole heartily believe in what he states regarding the trinity!!!!!  RIGHT ON 3 seperate persons!!!  but thats another debate.

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Anonymous

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I find it interesting that many of the people on here are very quick to condemn James and his statements about Ferrell's book on rock music, yet the fact remains that several of the key points Ferrell uses in his book to justify his position are clearly false. One might not agree with the somewhat vituperative manner in which James rebuffs the information found in the book however the fact remains that Ferrell used false information to justify a position, an action which is not only illogical, but which may only serve to discredit his argument. It is a very dangerous thing to use error to justify a position which, indeed, holds many truths, for when truth is mixed with error then it usually leads people to greater error and not truth. In surgery and in medicine there is something referred to as the sterile field. Anything that comes in contact with the field must also be sterile otherwise the sterile field is no longer considered sterile. My point in saying this is that if you want to uphold truth then be truthful!Use truth to support truth. Don't mix error with truth and further muddy the waters and discredit your point and yourself.Satan uses truth mixed with error to mislead people and it would be remiss of Christians to use the same methods to prove their points.

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webmaster

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Anonymous, Your message is sobering.  Reading your little post gives me more wisdom than many sermons i've heard.

James, i'm glad you aren't trying to counterattack those who attacked you.  That is the Christ-like spirit smile


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Anonymous

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hey mister, what david gates said about the economy happened,,,,now what do you think......is he a crazy nuts religious lider/

tell me have lost your house or are u about to lose it?
don't lose you soul


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SD

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As a church we are facing many issues lets not add secular music to our already weakened defences. It may prove to be a horrible mistake. Any music outside of God has to be evil and must have effects that are negative. We dont need science to prove that. The devil is not playing around, he doesn't put things out for no reason. One may ask what's wrong with this and that, the better question is what's righteous about it. If one cannot answer that question with 100% certainty it is best to leave the thing alone. I dont have to have 100% certainty, the fact is i'll not be indulging in it so no sin will be imputted unto me, but the person who indulges without 100% certainty of righteousness knowing they are not sure or heard negative things that they cannot disprove 100% will risk eternal damnation. As the scripture says, if that sin that you hold on to is a small as a mustard seed we will not enter heaven. Consider the story of David who played for Saul, whatever theologic anwer one comes up with, the exegetical fact remains the music drove the evil spirit away so the opposite must be true. God is sick of Adventist defending the devil and his agents. By this time you should be able to locate the article, "Letting Roman Catholics Off the Hook- (Adventist Today Magazine January 04, 2010). In an Adventist publication. We need to wake up. Consider this by John Todd former Illuminati high ranking member the link between the occult and rock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRc6FRBxpUY . Consider this writing from Dr H L Leno (SDA) . The Power of Music: http://god-head.com/index.php?option=com_rokdownloads&view=folder&Itemid=52&id=170:05-music. Finally Sam Bacchiocchi, yes, controversial, but he has a good book on music, actually a compilation of a few authors. Take a look at a few sample chapters (download: http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/cart/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=134.
May God help us. Let us set our affections on this above at all times. Let's do all things to the honor and glory of God.


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