In the Sabbath School lesson now, it is going over the history of Joseph.
Last week, I mentioned that Joseph either practiced divination, or else lied to his brothers when he said:
Gen 44:4 [And] when they were gone out of the city, [and] not [yet] far off, Joseph said unto his steward, Up, follow after the men; and when thou dost overtake them, say unto them, Wherefore have ye rewarded evil for good?
Gen 44:5 [Is] not this [it] in which my lord drinketh, and whereby indeed he divineth? ye have done evil in so doing.
Gen 44:6 And he overtook them, and he spake unto them these same words......
Gen 44:15 And Joseph said unto them, What deed [is] this that ye have done? wot ye not that such a man as I can certainly divine?
Surprisingly, most of the people said that Joseph was just testing them, so this was OK, and that he didn't lie or commit divination!
Has anyone here studied into this?
Also, when I asked if perhaps Joseph's heathen-priest-daughter wife advised him to do these bad things, no one even attempted a response.
One more problem I see with Joseph, is that he put his own brother in prison for 3 days! So the idea I've read that the story of Joseph is one of only 2 or 3 in the Bible that show no fault in somebody, is entirely mistaken.
I would suggest making use of the Spirit of Prophecy and the SDA Bible Commentary to help answer this question.
For example, if you look at Genesis 42:17 in the SDA Bible Commentary, it talks about Joseph putting his brothers in prison as a means of testing them, and PP 225 in the Spirit of Prophecy also discusses this issue.
"Professing to doubt the truthfulness of their story, and to still look upon them as spies, the governor declared that he would prove them, by requiring them to remain in Egypt till one of their number should go and bring their youngest brother down. If they would not consent to this, they were to be treated as spies. But to such an arrangement the sons of Jacob could not agree, since the time required for carrying it out would cause their families to suffer for food; and who among them would undertake the journey alone, leaving his brothers in prison? How could he meet his father under such circumstances? It appeared probable that they were to be put to death or to be made slaves; and if Benjamin were brought, it might be only to share their fate. They decided to remain and suffer together, rather than bring additional sorrow upon their father by the loss of his only remaining son. They were accordingly cast into prison, where they remained three days.
During the years since Joseph had been separated from his brothers, these sons of Jacob had changed in character. Envious, turbulent, deceptive, cruel, and revengeful they had been; but now, when tested by adversity, they were shown to be unselfish, true to one another, devoted to their father, and, themselves middle-aged men, subject to his authority.
The three days in the Egyptian prison were days of bitter sorrow as the brothers reflected upon their past sins. Unless Benjamin could be produced their conviction as spies appeared certain, and they had little hope of gaining their father's consent to Benjamin's absence. On the third day Joseph caused the brothers to be brought before him. He dared not detain them longer. Already his father and the families with him might be suffering for food. This do, and live, he said; for I fear God; if ye be true men, let one of your brethren be bound in the house of your prison: go ye, carry corn for the famine of your houses: but bring your youngest brother unto me; so shall your words be verified, and ye shall not die. p.225
.....
He had never claimed the power of divination, but was willing to have them believe that he could read the secrets of their lives. p.229"
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By this statement: "Professing to doubt the truthfulness of their story" we see yet another lie that Joseph promoted. He knew very well their story was true.
Page 229 says that Joseph "never claimed the power of divination" so the only other way I can see it, is that he outright lied. (Actually, the Bible is clear about what Joseph had said).
Is it possible that lying can be a good thing when "testing" people?
One way of coming at this story is to treat it as a parable, and the quote below says that the story is intended to illustrate the life of Christ.
When studying parables, it's helpful to start by considering big-picture elements and lessons, and laying aside elements that are peripheral. No matter how we look at this story, such elements do exist. For example, the story mentions Joseph's drinking cup, and a mention of this item does not imply that we should rush out and obtain a similar utensil.
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The life of Joseph illustrates the life of Christ. It was envy that moved the brothers of Joseph to sell him as a slave; they hoped to prevent him from becoming greater than themselves. And when he was carried to Egypt, they flattered themselves that they were to be no more troubled with his dreams, that they had removed all possibility of their fulfillment. But their own course was overruled by God to bring about the very event that they designed to hinder. So the Jewish priests and elders were jealous of Christ, fearing that He would attract the attention of the people from them. They put Him to death, to prevent Him from becoming king, but they were thus bringing about this very result. {PP 239.2}
Joseph, through his bondage in Egypt, became a savior to his father's family; yet this fact did not lessen the guilt of his brothers. So the crucifixion of Christ by His enemies made Him the Redeemer of mankind, the Saviour of the fallen race, and Ruler over the whole world; but the crime of His murderers was just as heinous as though God's providential hand had not controlled events for His own glory and the good of man. {PP 239.3}
As Joseph was sold to the heathen by his own brothers, so Christ was sold to His bitterest enemies by one of His disciples. Joseph was falsely accused and thrust into prison because of his virtue; so Christ was despised and rejected because His righteous, self-denying life was a rebuke to sin; and though guilty of no wrong, He was condemned upon the testimony of false witnesses. And Joseph's patience and meekness under injustice and oppression, his ready forgiveness and noble benevolence toward his unnatural brothers, represent the Saviour's uncomplaining endurance of the malice and abuse of wicked men, and His forgiveness, not only of His murderers, but of all who have come to Him confessing their sins and seeking pardon. {PP 239.4}
So R from the post Im thinking it was okay for Joseph to test his brothers?
Hi Nb, in answer to this question, and your related question and post about lying, I would say this.
The story of Joseph is believed to have occurred somewhere around 1500-2000 B.C., and I've already posted the quote that says that the story is intended to illustrate the life of Christ.
Given that the story is about an ancient culture, and is meant to illustrate Christ's life, I personally would be cautious about trying to resolve every issue that comes up, and would instead focus on trying to grasp the big-picture elements of the story. The same is true when interpreting various Bible parables.
I'm not in favor of lying, but neither am I convinced that we are to focus on an element like this, unless we have first grasped the overall theme of the story. Even then I'm not sure we can point to Joseph as proof that lying is okay.
Agreed completely that to grasp the overall meaning of the story and how the major parts are a prophecy to be fulfilled in a different way in the future is much more important than resolving all the minor details that are possibly not part of a future prophetic fulfillment.
My main point for starting this thread, is to disabuse fellow SDAs of the idea that Joseph was a perfect character. I've heard from many in my life that other than of course Jesus, the only characters we read much about in the Bible all show problems except Joseph and Daniel. Knowing there were some problems with Joseph will hopefully stop people from praising him more than is warranted. He lied, he took vengeance on his brothers, and he married a heathen priest's daughter. Reading deeper, you can see that he did terrible things to the entire Egyptian nation, but kept the people alive.
Personally, I think marrying her prevented him from being more of a blessing to his countrymen than he was. The last 60 years or so of his life, we don't know anything at all about what he did, except right before he died he wanted his bones taken back to Canaan.
Joseph illustrates Christ. Jesus came to his own, but his own received him not. He was rejected and despised, because his acts were righteous, and his consistent, self-denying life was a continual rebuke upon those who professed piety, but whose lives were corrupt. Joseph's integrity and virtue were fiercely assailed, and she who would lead him astray could not prevail, therefore her hatred was strong against the virtue and integrity which she could not corrupt, and she testified falsely against him. The innocent suffered because of his righteousness. He was cast into prison because of his virtue. Joseph was sold to his enemies by his own brethren for a small sum of money. The Son of God was sold to his bitterest enemies by one of his own disciples. Jesus was meek and holy. His was a life of unexampled self-denial, goodness and holiness. He was not guilty of any wrong. Yet false witnesses were hired to testify against him. He was hated because he had been a faithful reprover of sin and corruption. Joseph's brethren stripped him of his coat of many colors. The executioners of Jesus cast lots for his seamless coat. {3SG 174.2}
(2)
So to the people of Egypt and of all the nations connected with that powerful kingdom, God manifested Himself through Joseph. Why did the Lord choose to exalt Joseph so highly among the Egyptians? He might have provided some other way for the accomplishment of His purposes toward the children of Jacob; but He desired to make Joseph a light, and He placed him in the palace of the king, that the heavenly illumination might extend far and near. By his wisdom and justice, by the purity and benevolence of his daily life, by his devotion to the interests of the people -- and that people a nation of idolaters -- Joseph was a representative of Christ. In their benefactor, to whom all Egypt turned with gratitude and praise, that heathen people were to behold the love of their Creator and Redeemer. So in Moses also God placed a light beside the throne of the earth's greatest kingdom, that all who would, might learn of the true and living God. And all this light was given to the Egyptians before the hand of God was stretched out over them in judgments. {PP 368.3}
