interesting statement

Date: Nov 16, 2016

interesting statement

Date: Nov 16, 2016

George Knight is not shown to be trustworthy - from his own statements - after reading the detailed history - "Return of the Latter Rain" and bibliography chapter end notes - with reading of their referenced articles. George Knight does not ring true.

Date: Nov 16, 2016

amen

Date: Nov 19, 2016

Here is the link to Return of the Latter Rain - pdf

//righteousnessislove.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Return_of_the_Latter_Rain3ed.pdf

read for yourself.

Date: Nov 19, 2016

Ed Sutton wrote:
Here is the link to Return of the Latter Rain - pdf
//righteousnessislove.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Return_of_the_Latter_Rain3ed.pdf
read for yourself.

published by the 4th angel? that is not biblical or in SOP

Date: Nov 19, 2016

The name of a publishing company seems not to affect the contents of a book printed or published by them, it is a name of the business chosen by the owners of that business.

However, if you count the angels who give the messages and the times in history those messages are given you find that originally 1, 2, 3 messages are given by 3 separate angels in earlier American history, time passes, things get diluted and sleep, then those combined messages are re-powered up and given by a re-powered awake people later in American history. I have looked up fourth angel not as a quote but the two separate words as one search in published & unpublished SOP, and if you count the number of angels in Revelation, the fourth one is the one who lightens Earth with His glory.

Such semantics has no bearing upon the content and message of the PDF - "Return of the Latter Rain".

Date: Nov 19, 2016

Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Here we stand, under the third angels message. And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come our of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. {Ms32-1896}

Thus the substance of the second angels message is again given to the world by that other angel who lightens the earth with his glory. These messages all blend in one, to come before the people in the closing days of this earths history. All the world will be tested, and all that have been in the darkness of error in regard to the Sabbath of the fourth commandment will understand the last message of mercy that is to be given to men. {Ms32-1896}

Date: Nov 20, 2016

The phrase "fourth angel" occurs in the Bible in reference to the trumpets and plagues, but not in reference to the mighty angel of Revelation 18.

However, this concept can be inferred from the SOP, for example by means of the quote below. It describes how "another mighty angel" unites his voice with the third angel, and thus the progression from the third to the fourth.

I saw angels hurrying to and fro in heaven, descending to the earth, and again ascending to heaven, preparing for the fulfillment of some important event. Then I saw another mighty angel commissioned to descend to the earth, to unite his voice with the third angel, and give power and force to his message. Great power and glory were imparted to the angel, and as he descended, the earth was lightened with his glory. {EW 277.1}

Date: Nov 20, 2016

that's right Ed... it is not a new message or new light... it is a repeat of the 2nd and 3rd messages with greater power

it is not a new message or new light as a 4th would imply as told me by another years ago and I was rebuked for the same

it may seem like a mute point but there are many off shoots that use this and it makes me suspicious when I see it

shepherds rod is one of them or the davidians

Date: Nov 20, 2016

Think about it, the 1st,2nd,3rd messages - all facets of the righteousness of Christ, given to humans through faith in Christ, cleansed and established in union with God through the Gospel and present truth that was built eternally and operates and lasts eternally, the rescue net that calls and propels the obedient out of the retribution facing Babylon the enchanting seducer the deceiving divining serpent, the warning about Babylon's tactics to disqualify the elect's hold on salvation and simultaneously establish them as Babylon's children through obeying Babylon's civil / religious laws that forfeit Christ and righteousness by faith in Him through obedience to His Laws found in Scripture in the face of death.

This message of justification by faith and righteousness by faith and the willingness and power to believe Christ & the Bible through faith that seeks according to Scripture's conditions and obtains Christ's union with them and His power to both love not their lives to the death and love Him and God's words and law more than life and set aside the offers of bribery and threats of death and infamy in the process.

That is the message the books "Return of the Latter Rain" & "Wounded in the house of His friends" are talking about, plus extensive bibliography referencing actual historical EGW and non EGW written documents; and the reactions of ministers and leaders, both good and bad.

The reader is free to make their own assumptions, and follow the unvarnished chronicles of SDA history. Our current condition in the NAD and developed countries is painfully saddening but no longer surprising.

Date: Nov 21, 2016

I:ve seen Ron Duffield:s book before, but need to spend the time to sit down and read the whole thing. It is definitely on an important subject.

The [4th Angel] nearly always is a giveaway that the person using that phrase either doesn*t understand what the Three Angels* Messages are, or else they are trying to pass off some strange doctrine.

Let*s be sure of our foundation, and understand that there are only 3 angels, so only 3 messages. The angel in Revelation 18 is referred to in Ellen White*s writings as [The Revelation 18 angel], [The other angel], and some other phrases like [The other mighty angel]. As far as I know, it is never referred to as [4th angel] in inspired words, so let*s be cautious and not add or subtract from God*s words.

Date: Nov 22, 2016

If there are 3 angels giving a message, then Scripture says "another angel" or "that other angel" it is within Scripture context to say "fourth angel" - in this case it is the name used by the book publisher or the group posting the pdf of the book online. All this jangling is semantics and not the topic -

The real topic was said that if millerites tried joining the SDA Church today they would be rejected. Truth is progressive, they were still holding onto errors of their day. They ate pork, kept the first day of the week, believed Earth was the Sanctuary, Arianism in some, no understanding of victory through Scripture & Christ over personal sins, jangling over minor and non issues, felt organization was Babylon, no SOP, etc .

Christ faithfully worked to remove their wrong thinking, and in 1888 He used A.T. Jones and E. J. Waggoner to try to get the Church ready for the Latter Rain. The messages God sent the ministers, of whom the majority were little gods unto themselves, through these expositions of Scripture, got their heart positions exposed, and the war ignited and raged till years later A.T. Jones & E.J. Waggoner were finally broken and left the faith.

This book tells the unvarnished story, and uses published SDA & EGW articles, to show unedited history, through a non collusion untainted clear lens, what was actually preached, the reactions by whom, and God's responses through His messenger EGW.

Once this SDA history is understood, now the flow of SDA history from 1900 - unto the 1920's - 30's - 40's - 50's - and on to our present day is now decipherable and understandable, and why we are still here and Jesus has been prevented from returning in every generation since 1888 AD.

Date: Nov 24, 2016

I too used to believe it was a small thing about whether to call the Revelation 18 angel the *Fourth Angel* or not.

However, it has been my experience on the internet and personally, that when people start referring to the *Fourth Angel*, nearly always they are either obviously off the narrow path and trying to get to the New Jerusalem by a path of their own devising, or else they just haven:t considered the issue out very deeply. Yes, I know people who have gone completely away from the narrow path, and one of the first steps was believing in a *Fourth Angel*.

You see, if there is a *Fourth Angel*, then there must be, biblically speaking, a *Fourth Message*. Yet we are told that there is no fourth message.

Let:s warn others who are using this term wrongly to be more careful with their wording, as we don:t want to see any more souls fall off the narrow path into the dark world below.

On the main subject,,,, Yes, we SDAs are still holding on to some unbiblical things, and Christ is trying to get us to come back to keeping all the Commandments, Statutes, and Judgments, just as he did.

Date: Nov 25, 2016

https://www.amazon.com/Return-Latter-Rain-Ron-Duffield/dp/0974315249

on this amazon page reviews are given of the book.

Who is Kevin Straub ? He is one of the folks giving a review of the book.

I have read the book and the end notes (bibliography) and the bibliography is the reference for SDA published works that shows the validity of the book's statements that

1. show EGW's views of A.T.Jones & E.J. Waggoner's messages and EGW's correspondence with leaders pro and con of the RBF messages

2. the actual "rest of the story" about the players in the drama, U.Smith, GC Presidents, Conference Presidents, Ministers, authors, gives references where Jones and Waggoner do have their basic messages preserved in written form, the long trail of persecution that drove Jones and Waggoner into bitterness, sin, shipwreck, and it's lack of effect upon the earlier God sent messages, EGW's interview with pastor Washburn that shocked him into fully believing SOP when the influence of the battle had almost driven him to give up on God and the SDA faith. RBF & SOP comes through the struggle shining brighter and brighter, and in comparison, it reveals why 1950's SDA's leaders and members were ripe for denying the power of God and ready to embrace QOD, and lie through attrition to the new members coming in about RBF and the real heritage Scripture & SOP holds out to them.

Date: Nov 27, 2016

Cooperate in Proclaiming the Three Angels' Messages.--Let it never be forgotten that these [publishing] institutions are to cooperate with the ministry of the delegates of heaven. They are among the agencies represented by the angel flying "in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come." Revelation 14:6, 7. {PM 49.1}

From them is to go forth the terrible denunciation: "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication." Verse 8. {PM 49.2}

They are represented by the third angel that followed, "saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God." Verses 9, 10.--7T 140. (See also 2SM 117, 118.) {PM 49.3}

Make Plain the Issues in the Great Controversy.--The great conflict that Satan created in the heavenly courts is soon, very soon, to be forever decided. Soon all the inhabitants of the earth will have taken sides, either for or against the government of heaven. Now, as never before, Satan is exercising his deceiving power to mislead and to destroy every unguarded soul. We are called upon to arouse the people to prepare for the great issues before them. We must give warning to those who are standing on the very brink of ruin. God's people are to put forth every power in combating Satan's falsehoods and pulling down his strongholds. To every human being in the wide world who will give heed, we are to make plain the principles at stake in the great controversy--principles upon which hangs the eternal destiny of the soul. To the people far and near we are to bring home the question: "Are you following the great apostate in disobedience to God's law, or are you following the Son of God, who declared, 'I have kept My Father's commandments'?" {PM 49.4}

This is the work before us; for this our publishing institutions were established; it is this work that God expects at their hands.--7T 141, 142. {PM 50.1}

Accomplish "the Work of That Other Angel."--And in a large degree through our publishing houses is to be accomplished the work of that other angel who comes down from heaven with great power and who lightens the earth with his glory. {PM 50.2}

Solemn is the responsibility that rests upon our houses of publication. Those who conduct these institutions, those who edit the periodicals and prepare the books, standing as they do in the light of God's purpose, and called to give warning to the world, are held by God accountable for the souls of their fellow men. To them, as well as to the ministers of the word, applies the message given by God to His prophet of old: "Son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me. When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand." Ezekiel 33:7, 8. {PM 50.3}

Never did this message apply with greater force than it applies today.--7T 140, 141. {PM 50.4}

The Books of "Return of the Latter Rain" & "Wounded in the House of His Friends" unveil the actual history surrounding the first sprinkles of the Latter Rain upon Earth, and point to the opening messages of Righteousness of God & Jesus obtained by faith, which is the nature of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit to ripen God's worldwide followers, divide them from those who disobey, armour and power up God's children and seal them, convert the last generation who are willing to be converted, witness unto and against the rest, open the door for many, close the door for many more, finally end the need for Jesus to remain in the Most Holy Place, end the need for the sundering of God's family, usher in the last final Exodus.