I read today in the Adventist Review that changes were voted on for the 28 fundamental beliefs. I've made a video about the proposed changes, as number 18, about Ellen White, especially was problematic. According to the proposed changes, Ellen White's writings will now only be "to the church" instead of being for everybody in the world.
Here are links to the two Review stories about the voting on the changes:
But recommendations about four beliefs - on the Holy Scriptures (number 1), Creation (number 6), the Great Controversy (number 8), and Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary (number 24) - were sent back to the review committee for further work.
What bothers me most is the blatant falsehood stated by our president - Ted Wilson:
None of the revisions change any of the Fundamental Beliefs, and many simply update and tighten the text, General Conference president Ted N. C. Wilson assured delegates at the start of the discussions. "We are not changing our Fundamental Beliefs," Wilson said. "We are simply trying to enhance them and make them more understandable."
Personally, I'm against any kind of creed, as fallen man always gravitates towards man-made things rather than God-given things. But if we are going to have a creed, it should be at least according to the Bible.
May we pray for our leaders/delegates, and cry for repentance over failure to follow God's inspired words fully.
18. The Gift of Prophecy One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White. As the Lords messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested.
changes: bolded before is what has been deleted, bolded after is what has been added
18. The Gift of Prophecy The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested.
I believe this is significant. It fulfills prophecy for those that know it.
Since many want to downgrade and reinterpret SOP, changing hermeneutics on what Scripture says, and removing landmarks inch by inch is not unexpected.
Once a boil is fully ripe and to a head it can be lanced and cleaned out. Expect the "YES" voters not to sit still.
On vacation in San Antonio and have been at the session. My admiration for Moses in the face of such crowds and frustrations, is growing. Using my wife's laptop.
"It is Satan's plan to weaken the faith of God's people in the Testimonies. Satan knows how to make his attacks. He works upon minds to excite jealousy and dissatisfaction toward those at the head of the work. {CCh 93.5} 94 The gifts are next questioned; then, of course, they have but little weight, and instruction given through vision is disregarded. Next follows skepticism in regard to the vital points of our faith, the pillars of our position, then doubt as to the Holy Scriptures, and then the downward march to perdition. When the Testimonies, which were once believed, are doubted and given up, Satan knows the deceived ones will not stop at this; and he redoubles his efforts till he launches them into open rebellion, which becomes incurable and ends in destruction. By giving place to doubts and unbelief in regard to the work of God, and by cherishing feelings of distrust and cruel jealousies, they are preparing themselves for complete deception. They rise up with bitter feelings against the ones who dare to speak of their errors and reprove their sins. {CCh 94.1} It is not alone those who openly reject the Testimonies, or who cherish doubt concerning them, that are on dangerous ground. To disregard light is to reject it. {CCh 94.2} If you lose confidence in the Testimonies you will drift away from Bible truth. I have been fearful that many would take a questioning, doubting position, and in my distress for your souls I would warn you. How many will heed the warning? 121 {CCh 94.3} "
" "It is Satan's plan to weaken the faith of God's people in the Testimonies."
"Satan knows how to make his attacks. He works upon minds to excite jealousy and dissatisfaction toward those at the head of the work.
The gifts are next questioned; then, of course, they have but little weight, and instruction given through vision is disregarded."
"Next follows skepticism in regard to the vital points of our faith, the pillars of our position, then doubt as to the Holy Scriptures, and then the downward march to perdition.
When the Testimonies, which were once believed, are doubted and given up, Satan knows the deceived ones will not stop at this; and he redoubles his efforts till he launches them into open rebellion, which becomes incurable and ends in destruction." [VOL. 4, P. 211; VOL. 1, P. 236]
"By giving place to doubts and unbelief in regard to the work of God, and by cherishing feelings of distrust and cruel jealousies, they are preparing themselves for complete deception.
They rise up with bitter feelings against the ones who dare to speak of their errors and reprove their sins." [VOL. 3, P. 328.] {5T 672.1} "
And they doubt Jesus was speaking to EGW, this detailed prophecy from Jesus through EGW, is just as accurate as Daniel chapter 2 showing the head of gold, chest and arms of silver, belly and thighs of brass, legs of iron, feet of iron and clay, and great rock coming to crush it all.
Hello Ed, That is interesting that you are at the GC Session. While I'm very happy to see the "no" vote on the women's ordination issue, this seems to have made many of the rebellious just come out more in the open in their rebellion. Just as you've pointed out here in the inspired words, they question the leaders, and then they question God's words thru Ellen White.
Somehow, in reading Pr. Wilson's sermon this morning, I got the impression that this may be the last time a GC president at session gives a strongly pro-Spirit of Prophecy sermon. He did make two mistakes about no more time prophecies and his father supporting the SOP, but the rest of the sermon is quite inspiring.
I just wish he would come out in support of protecting pre-born babies.
I think someone did speak of protecting the unborn and listed their murder as one of the facets of organized apostasy and rebellion either during an earlier sermon or during the comments as part of the debate just before the wed vote on w.o. by delegates.
As other gc sessions, on preparation day, delegates from other countries were elsewhere, this time because they were told - no business session, but the printed agenda stated there was two business sessions, quickly they were called back but too many were elsewhere. Bad measures were passed because goodhearted delegates who would have voted the high road were absent.
A political ploy by the bad hearted politicians stacking the deck, while the naive good hearted trusting left themselves wide open to be deceived .
There is no substitute for diligence at one's post of duty - staying - till officially released by official sources from up front or on high.
If I remember correctly if might have been Larry Kirkpatrick speaking and including rebuke for SDA abortions, either in a full sermon or his pre vote comments.
The milling in all directions, unhappy faces, only a small percent of folks smiling and happy, modes of dress did not cover enough, letting little kids trail too far behind or run loose too far ahead. The general roar of so many voices overwhelming my hearing. Signs of dis-unity, disorganization, unhappiness, frustration. Many folks with sore and blistered feet, far more walking than sedentary adults are used to, little kids running and skipping unaffected by the exertions, parents attentively tending to their children, massive parking issues and scrambles to get from point to point, the sea of exhibitors with a large tide of resources, only a couple of exhibitors out of that large large group selling "return of the latter rain" and "wounded in the house of His friends" (those books that tell why the loud cry & latter rain stopped in 1888 era and show the only lawful terms of bringing them back).
Hearing the missionary testimonies of God's mighty works in other countries, even the raising back to life of a little boy submerged under water for six hours, the dead child found by his mother, with the pastor taking the mud covered dead child in his arms and "praying from the depths of his soul", as the pagan observers all telling the mother their gods were punishing her for her becoming a christian serving a different god and an SDA, if her god was so powerful do a miracle. The pastor prayed and either as he finished or before he finished the boy started moving in his arms, looked up, calling for "mamma", the living healthy little boy was given back to his SDA mamma in front of this pagan crowd.
Good memories, sad memories, bad memories of my only GC session - especially as compared to Wildwood among the SDA missionaries in the early 70's and common cause missionary minded SDA's at Rolling Hills Church in the early 90's, then the folks at this GC Session some who seemed gruff at first but had warm hearts and common hope as you talked to them and common longings surfaced in brother & sister - hood. I think the general press of the surging roaring crowd was too much for many folks not just me. Too much walking that became painful for this too sedentary man, in deep south summer heat. The yearning to save souls by personal efforts is a high priority with the happy, a slightly less priority with the glum , a low priority with the political and racial drum beaters, seems like no almost no priority with the rebellious w. o. activists and person's leading the rebellion - their mantra was to push their agenda and such.
It is the unsung unknown folks of common hope in Christ, uncovered while we were conversing, that I will remember fondly.
" The days are fast approaching when there will be great perplexity and confusion. Satan, clothed in angel robes, will deceive, if possible, the very elect. There will be gods many and lords many. Every wind of doctrine will be blowing. Those who have rendered supreme homage to "science falsely so called" will not be the leaders then. Those who have trusted to intellect, genius, or talent will not then stand at the head of rank and file. They did not keep pace with the light. Those who have proved themselves unfaithful will not then be entrusted with the flock. In the last solemn work few great men will be engaged. They are self-sufficient, independent of God, and He cannot use them. The Lord has faithful servants, who in the shaking, testing time will be disclosed to view. There are precious ones now hidden who have not bowed the knee to Baal. They have not had the light which has been shining in a concentrated blaze upon you. But it may be under a rough and uninviting exterior the pure brightness of a genuine Christian character will be revealed. In the day time we look toward heaven but do not see the stars. They are there, fixed in the firmament, but the eye cannot distinguish them. In the night we behold their genuine luster. {5T 80.1}
The time is not far distant when the test will come to every soul. The mark of the beast will be urged upon us. Those who have step by step yielded to worldly demands and conformed to worldly customs will not find it a hard matter to yield to the powers that be, rather than subject themselves to derision, insult, threatened imprisonment, and death. The contest is between the commandments of God and the commandments of men. In this time the gold will be separated from the dross in the church. True godliness will be clearly distinguished from the appearance and tinsel of it. Many a star that we have admired for its brilliancy will then go out in darkness. Chaff like a cloud will be borne away on the wind, even from places where we see only floors of rich wheat. All who assume the ornaments of the sanctuary, but are not clothed with Christ's righteousness, will appear in the shame of their own nakedness. {5T 81.1}
When trees without fruit are cut down as cumberers of the ground, when multitudes of false brethren are distinguished from the true, then the hidden ones will be revealed to view, and with hosannas range under the banner of Christ. Those who have been timid and self-distrustful will declare themselves openly for Christ and His truth. The most weak and hesitating in the church will be as David--willing to do and dare. The deeper the night for God's people, the more brilliant the stars. Satan will sorely harass the faithful; but, in the name of Jesus, they will come off more than conquerors. Then will the church of Christ appear "fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners." {5T 81.2}
The seeds of truth that are being sown by missionary efforts will then spring up and blossom and bear fruit. Souls will receive the truth who will endure tribulation and praise God that they may suffer for Jesus. "In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." When the overflowing scourge shall pass through the earth, when the fan is purging Jehovah's floor, God will be the help of His people. The trophies of Satan may be exalted on high, but the faith of the pure and holy will not be daunted. {5T 82.1} "
If I remember correctly if might have been Larry Kirkpatrick speaking and including rebuke for SDA abortions, either in a full sermon or his pre vote comments.
The milling in all directions, unhappy faces, only a small percent of folks smiling and happy, modes of dress did not cover enough, letting little kids trail too far behind or run loose too far ahead. The general roar of so many voices overwhelming my hearing. Signs of dis-unity, disorganization, unhappiness, frustration. Many folks with sore and blistered feet, far more walking than sedentary adults are used to, little kids running and skipping unaffected by the exertions, parents attentively tending to their children, massive parking issues and scrambles to get from point to point, the sea of exhibitors with a large tide of resources, only a couple of exhibitors out of that large large group selling "return of the latter rain" and "wounded in the house of His friends" (those books that tell why the loud cry & latter rain stopped in 1888 era and show the only lawful terms of bringing them back).
Hearing the missionary testimonies of God's mighty works in other countries, even the raising back to life of a little boy submerged under water for six hours, the dead child found by his mother, with the pastor taking the mud covered dead child in his arms and "praying from the depths of his soul", as the pagan observers all telling the mother their gods were punishing her for her becoming a christian serving a different god and an SDA, if her god was so powerful do a miracle. The pastor prayed and either as he finished or before he finished the boy started moving in his arms, looked up, calling for "mamma", the living healthy little boy was given back to his SDA mamma in front of this pagan crowd.
Good memories, sad memories, bad memories of my only GC session - especially as compared to Wildwood among the SDA missionaries in the early 70's and common cause missionary minded SDA's at Rolling Hills Church in the early 90's, then the folks at this GC Session some who seemed gruff at first but had warm hearts and common hope as you talked to them and common longings surfaced in brother & sister - hood. I think the general press of the surging roaring crowd was too much for many folks not just me. Too much walking that became painful for this too sedentary man, in deep south summer heat. The yearning to save souls by personal efforts is a high priority with the happy, a slightly less priority with the glum , a low priority with the political and racial drum beaters, seems like no almost no priority with the rebellious w. o. activists and person's leading the rebellion - their mantra was to push their agenda and such.
It is the unsung unknown folks of common hope in Christ, uncovered while we were conversing, that I will remember fondly.
" The days are fast approaching when there will be great perplexity and confusion. Satan, clothed in angel robes, will deceive, if possible, the very elect. There will be gods many and lords many. Every wind of doctrine will be blowing. Those who have rendered supreme homage to "science falsely so called" will not be the leaders then. Those who have trusted to intellect, genius, or talent will not then stand at the head of rank and file. They did not keep pace with the light. Those who have proved themselves unfaithful will not then be entrusted with the flock. In the last solemn work few great men will be engaged. They are self-sufficient, independent of God, and He cannot use them. The Lord has faithful servants, who in the shaking, testing time will be disclosed to view. There are precious ones now hidden who have not bowed the knee to Baal. They have not had the light which has been shining in a concentrated blaze upon you. But it may be under a rough and uninviting exterior the pure brightness of a genuine Christian character will be revealed. In the day time we look toward heaven but do not see the stars. They are there, fixed in the firmament, but the eye cannot distinguish them. In the night we behold their genuine luster. {5T 80.1}
The time is not far distant when the test will come to every soul. The mark of the beast will be urged upon us. Those who have step by step yielded to worldly demands and conformed to worldly customs will not find it a hard matter to yield to the powers that be, rather than subject themselves to derision, insult, threatened imprisonment, and death. The contest is between the commandments of God and the commandments of men. In this time the gold will be separated from the dross in the church. True godliness will be clearly distinguished from the appearance and tinsel of it. Many a star that we have admired for its brilliancy will then go out in darkness. Chaff like a cloud will be borne away on the wind, even from places where we see only floors of rich wheat. All who assume the ornaments of the sanctuary, but are not clothed with Christ's righteousness, will appear in the shame of their own nakedness. {5T 81.1}
When trees without fruit are cut down as cumberers of the ground, when multitudes of false brethren are distinguished from the true, then the hidden ones will be revealed to view, and with hosannas range under the banner of Christ. Those who have been timid and self-distrustful will declare themselves openly for Christ and His truth. The most weak and hesitating in the church will be as David--willing to do and dare. The deeper the night for God's people, the more brilliant the stars. Satan will sorely harass the faithful; but, in the name of Jesus, they will come off more than conquerors. Then will the church of Christ appear "fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners." {5T 81.2}
The seeds of truth that are being sown by missionary efforts will then spring up and blossom and bear fruit. Souls will receive the truth who will endure tribulation and praise God that they may suffer for Jesus. "In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." When the overflowing scourge shall pass through the earth, when the fan is purging Jehovah's floor, God will be the help of His people. The trophies of Satan may be exalted on high, but the faith of the pure and holy will not be daunted. {5T 82.1} "
This is an exciting testimony of how great our God IS!!
Ed, did you get to meet any of our conservative sda cyber friends?
This certainly is an exciting, fact-filled account. I'm excited to hear that Larry Kirkpatrick talked about the heinous sin of murdering babies. Steve Wohlberg did a series on that topic too recently, so perhaps the tide is turning in the SDA church. I will continue to do what I can to get us out of what a James White edited Review article called "devilish practice".
My Indian friend was there as a delegate. It was his and his wife's first trip outside of India. He is not a denominational employee, but was chosen to be a delegate as the lay-member representative. I will try to get his reactions and publish them if he allows.
I went to the Atlanta Session for the only GC Session in my life, and I did not experience any of the huffing and puffing, or the kids running crazy. The spirit was quite good mostly, but there were a few openly rebellious people there - Spectrum and Adventist Muslim Relations people, and a bit of a feeling that the whites/rich country people are in charge, and then there is "all the rest".
I think in the end time we will see most of those in rich countries leave, and many in the poor countries come in. The last shall be first, and the first last.
nb, when it's not necessary to quote the entire previous post, could you just hit the "reply" button and write? Thank you.
"Correction for the Church" is a very reasonable statement considering that prophecy and the counsel of prophets is not for the world as they will not hear it. It is for believers, in other words, for "the church".
After all, the "church" is composed of both visible and invisible members. As Sister White refers to it in Acts of the Apostles (chapter one) being "organized for service" here she is clearly referring to the organized, visible church, the one with the sign out front identifying it to the towns people as a "Seventh-day Adventist" church (feeble and defective though it may be). At times, but not often, she refers to the invisible church, some of whom may actually be members of the visible Catholic Church!! Man cannot know the heart, the wheat and tares must work together until the visible church is purified.
When that happens, I won't speculate as to what it may look like at that time. As we are told there will be a return to primitive Godliness, it may appear to be "disorganized", not "official" in any capacity, a company here or there. That time, in my opinion, has not yet come and I will not strive to bring upon myself the "time of trouble" (little or great) before its time.
Some say the tares are sifted out, from what? The visible church? That didn't happen in the time of the Jews. The "tares" remained in the temple, they owned the schools, the buildings, the money and civil power still in their hands. It was the WHEAT who left, not the tares! That time has not yet come...
