Looking closely at this interpretation we've made for years I find we have been in error.
Then to add to it, I think EGW has seen it different too, her quote will be after my thesis of it.
Not that I am anxious to take anything from the Papacy I am not as she has been a terrible apostate without a shadow of doubt.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Now the word in Greek "that Wicked" was translated from is Anomos in the negative, and follows is the definition given,
459. anomos anomoV anomos an'-om-os from 1 (as a negative particle) and 3551; lawless, i.e. (negatively) not subject to (the Jewish) law; (by implication, a Gentile), or (positively) wicked:--without law, lawless, transgressor, unlawful, wicked.
See Greek 1 See Greek 3551 1. a a a al'-fah of Hebrew origin; the first letter of the alphabet; figuratively, only (from its use as a numeral) the first: --Alpha. Often used (usually an, before a vowel) also in composition (as a contraction from 427) in the sense of privation; so, in many words, beginning with this letter; occasionally in the sense of union (as a contraction of 260).
So for myself, I see Anomos in the negative to be stating "The Alpha Lawless One."
And now notice the verse following 2 Thes 2:8 really does the identifying for us,
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
If we would read the two verses as one we would see it clearly!
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
Yes, that Wicked, Anomos is who verse 9 labels as Satan, Anomos, the first lawless one is Satan not a Pope and besides the Pope isn't but only it's head man of the Papacy as is the president of Adventism or the head of any of the denominations.
All of them claim to be the head of Christ's Church and are not! Truly Christ Only can be the Head of His Church!
Now I find that EGW it seems has come also to see who this player is, please read this,
"The mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming." "Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a god, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:. . . . therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness. They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas. Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee. Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God." {RH, April 19, 1898 par. 4}
And I add two more verses of Eze to show more fully who is being referred to by Prince or King of Tyrus,
Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Satan is truly the original man of sin, the original lawless one, but he is not the person spoken of by Paul in the text because the text gives qualifiers that do not happen to Satan at the second coming.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
It did not say all wicked, nor all wicked angels, it said "that wicked" referring to a specific wicked. So context of that passage > that topic > tells who Paul is referring to.
"that wicked" = 7 Bible Texts
Deuteronomy 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die. that wicked..... Object = behaviour
2 Chronicles 24:7 For the sons of Athaliah, that wicked woman, had broken up the house of God; and also all the dedicated things of the house of the LORD did they bestow upon Baalim.
that wicked.........object = Athaliah
Ezekiel 33:8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. that wicked..........object = man God sent the message to
1 Corinthians 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. that wicked ........... object = church member fornicating with his fathers wife.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
that wicked................object = the human man verses 1-7 & 9 identify in prophecy which can not refer to Satan because his working imitates how Satan works, if it was referring to Satan the wording would be different in verse 9.
1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brothers righteous.
Verses 8,9,10 do here refer to Satan and that wicked one ........... object >IS Satan .... it says Cain was of this wicked .... not that Cain was this wicked one.
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
The contrast given is God and Satan and humans are seperated by which leader they follow that wicked .......... object > Satan
I just finished looking at That wicked = 96 SOP hits, all 96 of them, I will post them that apply to 2md Thess verses quoted, with some context and the whole article you referred to.
The message itself ....... shall be increased. [Daniel 12:4.] {GC88 355.3}
The apostle Paul warned the church not to look for the coming of Christ in his day. That day shall not come, he says, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed. [2 Thessalonians 2:3.] Not till after the great apostasy, and the long period of the reign of the man of sin, can we look for the advent of our Lord. The man of sin, which is also styled the mystery of iniquity, the son of perdition, and that wicked,represents the papacy, which, as foretold in prophecy, was to maintain its supremacy for 1260 years. This period ended in 1798. The coming of Christ could not take place before that time. Paul covers with his caution the whole of the Christian dispensation down to the year 1798. It is this side of that time that the message of Christ's second coming is to be proclaimed. {GC88 356.1}
.... {GC88 356.2}
Same thing in {GC 356.1-.3}
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I have been shown .......But Satan, transformed into an angel of light, works upon the mind to allure from the only safe and right path. The sciences of phrenology, psychology, and mesmerism, have been the channel through which Satan has come more directly to this generation, and wrought with that power which was to characterize his work near the close of probation. {4bSG 80.1}
Read 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12. "And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming; even him whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, ...... {4bSG 80.2}
Satan has come unperceived through these sciences, and poisoned the minds of thousands and led them to infidelity.......... {4bSG 81.1}
Said the angel, "Mark its influence. The controversy between Christ and Satan is not yet ended." This entering in of Satan through the sciences, is well devised by his Satanic majesty, and will eventually root out of the minds of thousands true faith in Christ's being the Messiah, the Son of God. {4bSG 81.2} {1T 290.2-.3} {RH, February 18, 1862 par.1-4}
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April 19, 1898 "All That Will Live Godly in Christ
Jesus Shall Suffer Persecution."
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Mrs. E. G. White.
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After hearing Christ's words ........ {RH, April 19, 1898 par. 1}
"....... When a man loses the shield of a good conscience, he loses the co-operation of heavenly angels. God is not working in him. He is controlled by another spirit. {RH, April 19, 1898 par. 2}
..... {RH, April 19, 1898 par. 3}
"The mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming." "Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a god, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:. . . ....{RH, April 19, 1898 par. 4}
The time is fast approaching when this scripture will be fulfilled. The world and the professedly Protestant churches are in this our day taking sides with the man of sin;......{RH, April 19, 1898 par. 5}
There are many who would serve Christ, provided they could serve themselves also. But this cannot be. The Lord will not accept cowards in his army. There must be no dissembling. Christ's followers must stand ready to serve him at all times and in every way that may be required. "He that is not with me is against me," Christ declares; "and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad." {RH, April 19, 1898 par. 6}
Many have tried neutrality in a crisis, but they have failed in their purpose. No one can maintain a neutral position. ........Those who begin their Christian life by being half and half, will at last be found enlisted on the enemy's side, whatever may have been their first intentions. And to be an apostate, a traitor to the cause of God, is more serious than death; for it means the loss of eternal life. {RH, April 19, 1898 par. 7}
Double-minded men and women are Satan's best allies. Whatever favorable opinion they may have of themselves, they are dissemblers. All who are loyal to God and the truth must stand firmly for the right because it is right. ........{RH, April 19, 1898 par. 8}
Christ does not promise his followers a smooth and easy path, but he does not ask them to travel the Christian way alone. ........ {RH, April 19, 1898 par. 9}
"They shall put you out of the synagogues." Has not this been done? .......{RH, April 19, 1898 par. 10}
"Yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service." These words come sounding down along the line to our time. A deception is upon those who oppress their fellow men because they do not believe the same form of doctrine that their oppressors believe. Such can give no stronger evidence to the heavenly universe and to the worlds unfallen that they have chosen to stand on Satan's side; for Satan is ever an oppressor of those who love God. {RH, April 19, 1898 par. 11}
.......{RH, April 19, 1898 par. 12}
The true and faithful follower of Christ must suffer persecution. There is no way of avoiding it. Paul wrote to Timothy: "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them." {RH, April 19, 1898 par. 13}
...... {RH, April 19, 1898 par. 14}
Persecution has frightened many poor souls from the blood-stained banner of Prince Emmanuel to the black banner of the great apostate. For the sake of this life, they transgress the law of God, and in that day when all transgressors are destroyed, they will be bound up with Satan to suffer the second death. But while persecution from those who worship at false shrines will cause some to yield up the truth, it will never induce a true child of God to separate from Christ, in whom his hopes of eternal life are centered.
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{RH, April 19, 1898 par. 15}
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Our salvation ......The Holy Spirit comes to man through Christ........ {RH, July 25, 1899 par. 14}
The last great crisis is upon us. The working of the man of sin is revealed. "The mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." {RH, July 25, 1899 par. 15}
"Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. . . .......abideth forever." {RH, July 25, 1899 par. 16}
This sanctification we must all experience, else we can never gain eternal life. It is obtained by a union with Christ, a union which no power of Satan can break. {RH, July 25, 1899 par. 17}
Christ demands undivided heart-service,--the entire use of mind, soul, heart, and strength. "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." When we make this surrender, Christ sets our minds at rest, and consecrates our hearts and hands to his service. His wisdom gives us spiritual life, and enables us to manifest love to God and to one another. We reveal his grace in our characters; for we have his life. He presents us spotless before his Father; for we are sanctified through his blood. We are purged from dead works; for Jesus takes possession of the sanctified soul, to renew, sustain, and guide all its impulses, and give vitality to its purposes. Thus we become temples for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. {RH, July 25, 1899 par. 18}
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...... {ST, June 12, 1893 par. 2}
Paul, in his second epistle to the Thessalonians, points out the power that has attempted to break down the law of God..........
. . . The mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now letteth [hindereth] will let [hinder], until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming." The prophet Daniel, describing the same power, says, "He shall speak great words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and think to change times and laws." {ST, June 12, 1893 par. 3}
How strikingly have these prophecies been fulfilled by the Romish Church! .......{ST, June 12, 1893 par. 4}
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Almost every phase of talent is now being brought into captivity to the prince of the power of darkness.Worldly minded men, because they wish to exalt themselves, and have separated from God, do not love to retain God in their knowledge, for they claim to possess a higher, grander intellect than that of Jesus Christ. Satan envies Christ, and makes the claim that he is entitled to a higher position than the Commander of heaven. His self-exaltation led him to despise the law of God, and resulted in his expulsion from heaven. {ST, May 28, 1894 par. 9}
Through the Papacy he has manifested his character, and brought out the principles of his government.Of this power the apostle Paul says: "Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day shall not come, except there come a falling a way first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. . . . For the mystery of iniquity doth already work. . . . Shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming, even him, whose coming is after the working ofSatan ....... {ST, May 28, 1894 par. 10}
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Software kept requiring I prune the post, so look up the references and read the unshortened whole.
Ed, I don't even have to look up the Greek for 2 Thes 2:8 "that Wicked" to know it is not the Pope or Papacy that is the player we are to see, I only need to rationalize the scriptures, just two verses,
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 2Th 2:9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
First for the fact of what is it that needs to be revealed of the Papacy and the Pope by Protestantism. Many of the Catholics see it too as a lot in Protestantism do of apostasies in it but still uphold their precious church structure over the true one. All about both are right out in the open for all to see!
Not so with Satan as he masquerades as an angel of light and has practically the whole word under his little finger.
Also that Wicked" will be consumed by the brightness of our LORD'S coming again and the last Pope will possibly be living to be consumed as all men who are not His will be also.
But now I notice in verse 9 it identifies Satan as the one doing the signs and lying wonders. Now we must know that this is what Satan does when he comes forth personating Christ and appearing to men to be Christ come again in great Glory!
So God in His Fury will of course destroy or burn up the personification making himself God in His Place. Does God have indignation? Sure does,
Da 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
"indignation" is,
2195. za`am Mez za`am zah'-am from 2194; strictly froth at the mouth, i.e. (figuratively) fury (especially of God's displeasure with sin):--angry, indignation, rage.
See Hebrew 2194
Hebrew 2194 means near the same.
1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Your assertions continue to call EGW and Christ who spoke through her, a liar. Under these circumstances human opinion in contradiction of Scripture & SOP has no virtue.
" The apostle Paul warned the church not to look for the coming of Christ in his day. That day shall not come, he says, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed. [2 Thessalonians 2:3.] Not till after the great apostasy, and the long period of the reign of the man of sin, can we look for the advent of our Lord. The man of sin, which is also styled the mystery of iniquity, the son of perdition, and that wicked,represents the papacy, which, as foretold in prophecy, was to maintain its supremacy for 1260 years. This period ended in 1798. The coming of Christ could not take place before that time. Paul covers with his caution the whole of the Christian dispensation down to the year 1798. It is this side of that time that the message of Christ's second coming is to be proclaimed. {GC88 356.1} and {GC 356.1-.3}
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You wrote >
Ed, I don't even have to look up the Greek for 2 Thes 2:8 "that Wicked" to know it is not the Pope or Papacy that is the player we are to see, I only need to rationalize the scriptures, just two verses,
Why are you refusing to subordinate to the delegated authority of Christ as He spoke through a designated messenger, in this case EGW ? That is not the response reasonably expected of someone professing SDA Christianity .
What do you have to say for yourself ? This is not a one time occurrence for you but a continuing trend.
Software blocked my pulling this up, so this is a second post.
"20. The Church is to come behind in no gift, and the presence of the gift of the spirit of prophecy started in Eden and continues till the Second Coming. That gift of prophecy is to be one of the identifying marks of the Remnant Church. ( Jude 1:14 - God testified through prophecy in Enochs day - before any flood; Genesis 6:13; Genesis 6:22 ; Genesis 7:1, 5; Genesis 8:15; Genesis 9:8, 17; Hebrews 11:7- God prophetically warned Noah and spoke to him; Exodus 25:22 - God testified in Mosess day ; Gods ancient covenant of His Spirits bestowal remains today among His ancient faith developed into present truth and prophetic fulfillment - Haggai 2:5; Psalms 19:7 & Psalms 119:88 - God gave testimony that David speaks of in his day; Joel couldn't prophecy about it & Peter couldn't apply it unless it was so - { Joel 2:23-32 - Acts 2:1-41 }; The WiseMen from the East & Joseph & Mary were communicated to prophetically by God- Matthew 2:1-23; Gods testimony in Pauls day- 1 Corinthians 1:6 & 1 Corinthians 2:1 [ Paul & Timothy & John couldn't declare it if they didn't already have it ; 2 Timothy 1:8 ; Hebrews 3:5; Revelation 1:2; Revelation 1:9 ]; 1st Corinthians 1:5-7; 1st Corinthians 12:1-28; Amos 3:7; Hosea 12:10, 13; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 19:10 ) Seventh Day Adventists recognize that this gift was manifested in the life and ministry of Ellen G. White .
Read the study done on this subject by A.G. Daniels - The abiding Gift of Prophecy EGW was not the first nor will she be the last. Even though it is not known that one of her Apostolic stature as was Moses and those like him, will be raised up again or not - God chooses.
The Inuit Eskimos had a prophet, the African Bushmen had a prophet, the Chinese had a prophet or prophets, in every generation in every land God chooses and speaks to rebuild and lead the ancient faith began in Eden to keep it alive till the Second Coming.
Calling major or minor spokesmen or spokeswomen, the Spirit of God testifies severally as He will, till Jesus Christ returns. Prophecy abides till that which is perfect has come, and has no reason to be no more till then.
Bro. Ed, I find that EGW did not always see "that Wicked" as the Pope and besides I must stand first with scripture on any point and I do believe it is an error EGW came to see.
Investigation of Doctrine.--There is no excuse for anyone in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. {CW 35.2}
The view of "that Wicked" probably at first did not come from her anyway. She had trouble with many of the views brought forth of several of the leading men up through.
1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
