Post Info TOPIC: "Evangelical" Adventism, Who did this???
Dennis Wicklund

Date:
"Evangelical" Adventism, Who did this???
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I have heard from College professors, and minsters on radio shows, that the SDA denomination is an "Evangelical" one.  Please help me understand why in the 1888 Great Controversy Ellen White describes the apostate Roman "Princes" as "Evangelical", yet in the work published later on, the SDA church seems to do an "Evangelical" work.  Go ahead and look for yourself.  Seems the wine of Babylon did not take long in filling the cups of our people after the prophet's presence was no longer felt.  No wonder they sent her to Australia.


 


Dennis



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Jeffery Fitzsimmons

Date:
Hello from Australia!! lol
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Dear Dennis


 


First of all, Australia isnt such a bad place to live comparied to the US.  Where I come from in the Outback of Australia, I remember when I was younger, we never locked the front door even if we were out of the house. There is hardly any crime, murders etc.  In fact quite peaceful!


Ellen White being sent to Australia was no bearing on her prophetic gift.  As she was instructed by an Angel to do so, to establish the minister's college and sanitarium health facility.


In my humble opinion is that in 1888, with the Waggoner/Jones message on "Christ our Righteousness", it was a deeper life-changing experience. Visiting Australia, and staying at sunnyside cottege was a time of great reflection, Ellen had pened some of the Desire of Ages (1898).  There is many evidence that Ellen had written a letter of warning or some other special message it would leave Australia and arrive in the US exactly when needed,  which endorses her stay here.


I am partly amuzed by the flashy names college professors call things, being "Evangelical" derives from the word to Evangelize, which is to preach and teach the word.  Being caught up in labelling Rome this and SDA that, suggests a more spiritual approach what you really believe. Dennis I dont believe for one brief minute that I am better that you or am I trying to have a go at you. 


I remember the first time I saw my wife coming down the isle, (1996) it was one of the most beautiful and spiritual sites I have ever seen and felt.  I am now 37yrs and I have been married for 10 years and have two children with our third on the way, every day no matter how tied from this world we are always try to say we love each other.


Our church (The Seventh-day Adventist Church) is the bride of Christ.  Satan's objective is bring her down, tare her dress rub dirt into it.  Satan has us so amused with the dance floor and the pretty lights, we honestly forget to look up and focusing on Jesus and think of our role within the the great controversy. Like all wifes/brides they need affirmation and building up, otherwise we give the devil a footing when he is not invited.


We are Jesus' witness to mankind and the other unfallen worlds.  The greatest joy in our heart is when we realign our Love for God and we have the same righteous hatred Jesus had against the world, is standards of beliefs, its idols and its wealth.


I will conclude with "blessed are they that are invited to the Lamb's wedding supper".


I pray that we may grow daily into His loving grace. Thank you Lord Jesus AMEN


 


Jeffery Fitzsimmons


cityfitz@hotmail.com



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Dennis Wicklund

Date:
RE: "Evangelical" Adventism, Who did this???
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Jeffrey,


 


There may have been a work given for her to do from the angel, but the brethren had their own ideas about why to send her there.  God's plan and man's plan rarely, if ever, match.  The leadership, in an attempt to stifle and silence the prophet's rebukes and warnings, only succeeded in spreading the work in a greater degree. 


Dennis



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Dennis Wicklund

Date:
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Evangelical is more than just a fancy word characterizing a work of evengelism.  There is ecumenism and all its leaven bound up in the word also.  I would hope all Seventh-day Adventists recognized this. 


Dennis



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akoko

Date:
RE: "Evangelical" Adventism, Who did this???
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Amen! Dennis - I hope we will all realise the Devil tricks - he is a real worrior bt thanks Jesus beat Him - Lets all rally and take cover behind Jesus! - you see its like a marathon race, and the race is just a few yards away from the finishing line - probably a few seconds to the finish! The war is about to end and Jesus is winning big time! Halleluya! The Devil is a looser!!!
Happy Sabbath!

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Gordon

Date:
RE: Evangelical Adventism, Who did this???
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Thank you Dennis for your interesting comments. I looked up 'evangelical princes' at your suggestion.The word 'evangelical' appears eight times in the 1888 GC chapter 'Protest of the Princes', twice referring to princes.

But as the chapter title implies, these are Protestant princes who are being cornered by the Church & State. All eight uses of the word 'evangelical' here are referring to Protestants, as I read it, not Romans.

For those wishing to verify this use of 'evangelical':

http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/gateway.dll/egw-comp/section00000.htm/book01906.htm/chapter01920.htm?f=templates$fn=document-frameset.htm$q=%5BRank%2010000%5D%20evangelical$x=Advanced#LPHit1

Although the words Evangelical, Evangelism, have been hijacked and misrepresented, (like the words Christian, Christianity) we can use them with authority, as they are variations of the Biblical word Evangelist. Philip is identified as "Philip the evangelist" in Acts 21:8. Paul charges Timothy to "do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry" 2 Timothy 4:5.

The word 'evangelist', euaggelistes in Greek, is made up of two words. 1) eu which means 'good' or 'well'. From eu we have such words as eulogy - a good word; euphemism - well spoken of; euphoria - good feeling. 2) aggelos means 'messenger' from which we have the word 'angel'. Thus an evangelist is a 'messenger of good', one with a 'good message'. Similarly, the word euaggelion from the same Greek roots, is translated 'gospel' in our King James Version, the good news or good message.

Please note this simple study is not 'high theology', but easily referenced in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible (published 1890). Every sincere English speaking Bible student should have a copy of this important reference book. William Miller would have been envious. Strong's can be found in most public libraries or purchased for about $25 US. I recommend the Exhaustive version, Complete & Unabridged with Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries. The compact edition by Baker Book House is more portable, but the print is small. (ISBN 0-8010-8108-4)

In addition, EGW used the terms evangelical, evangelize, etc. Apostate Protestantism will also use Biblical terms to describe their works, to deceive if possible even the elect. 'And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel (messenger) of light.' 2 Corinthians 11:14.

To me Dennis the term 'Evangelical' describes the Moral Majority, the Christian Coalition, the Conservative Christian Right, etc. They have taken the name, but they have no good news. Ecumenical, Sunday Confederacy better describe this movement. Indeed, the SDA Church should be Evangelical and 'doing the work of an evangelist'. Somehow, it is content with a Laodicean state whose only destiny is 'I will spue thee out of my mouth.' Revelation 3:15 This of course can be avoided (while time lingers) by fully repenting the lukewarm state and returning to the first love, the Philadelphian condition. "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God" Revelation 3:12. History however shows this event unlikely. Luther did not reform his Church. Christ did not reform the Church of his day either. They silenced him as best they knew how.

Regards,

Gordon



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Gordon

Date:
RE: "Evangelical" Adventism, Who did this???
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Hello Jeffrey,

I have not read that Ellen White went to Australia at the instruction of an Angel. Please post the reference. My understanding is that she was shipped out to Europe and to Australia because she was becoming troublesome back at the office. This is standard fare for God's prophets. Indeed the 1888 Conference and message was probably the catalyst to rid her from the U.S. shores. She ardently supported the message as brought by Jones & Waggoner.

"The Lord in His great mercy sent a most precious message to His people through Elders Waggoner and Jones" 1888 Materials, p. 1336.

But this message was rejected by the General Conference:

"THE TRUE RELIGION, THE ONLY RELIGION OF THE BIBLE, THAT TEACHES FORGIVENESS ONLY THROUGH THE MERITS OF A CRUCIFIED AND RISEN SAVIOUR, THAT ADVOCATES RIGHTEOUSNESS BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD, HAS BEEN SLIGHTED, SPOKEN AGAINST, RIDICULED, AND REJECTED." Testimonies to Ministers 468

Because she endorsed the message and urged reform at the heart of the work, she too was slighted, spoken against, ridiculed, rejected and sent away:

"At times before leaving America I thought that the Lord did not require me to go to a country so far away, at my age and when I was prostrated by overwork. But I followed the voice of the {General} Conference, as I have ever tried to do at times when I had no clear light myself. I came to Australia, and found the believers here in a condition where they must have help." 2 Selected Messages 239

It does not appear that she was directed to Australia by an Angel ("I had no clear light myself") Later on the same page however she writes "I am in Australia, and I believe that I am just where the Lord wants me to be. Because suffering is my portion, I have no thought of beating a retreat." God's servants will not stop serving Him because of circumstance or persecution.

"When John was exiled to the Isle of Patmos, there were many who thought him to be past service, an old and broken reed ready to fall at any time. But the Lord saw fit to use him in that lonely island home where His servant was imprisoned. The world and the bigoted priests and rulers rejoiced that they were at last rid of his ever fresh testimony." 7 Bible Commentary 954

But God never deserts His faithful. "God and Christ and the heavenly host were John's companions on the Isle of Patmos...Christ's servants who are true and faithful may be unrecognized and unhonored by men . . . , but the Lord will honor them. They will not be forgotten by God. He will honor them by His presence because they have been found true and faithful. Ibid.

Regards,

Gordon

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Dennis Wicklund

Date:
RE: "Evangelical" Adventism, Who did this???
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Gordon wrote:


Although the words Evangelical, Evangelism, have been hijacked and misrepresented, (like the words Christian, Christianity) we can use them with authority, as they are variations of the Biblical word Evangelist. Philip is identified as "Philip the evangelist" in Acts 21:8. Paul charges Timothy to "do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry" 2 Timothy 4:5. The word 'evangelist', euaggelistes in Greek, is made up of two words. 1) eu which means 'good' or 'well'. From eu we have such words as eulogy - a good word; euphemism - well spoken of; euphoria - good feeling. 2) aggelos means 'messenger' from which we have the word 'angel'. Thus an evangelist is a 'messenger of good', one with a 'good message'. Similarly, the word euaggelion from the same Greek roots, is translated 'gospel' in our King James Version, the good news or good message. Please note this simple study is not 'high theology', but easily referenced in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible (published 1890). Every sincere English speaking Bible student should have a copy of this important reference book. William Miller would have been envious. Strong's can be found in most public libraries or purchased for about $25 US. I recommend the Exhaustive version, Complete & Unabridged with Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries. The compact edition by Baker Book House is more portable, but the print is small. (ISBN 0-8010-8108-4) In addition, EGW used the terms evangelical, evangelize, etc. Apostate Protestantism will also use Biblical terms to describe their works, to deceive if possible even the elect. 'And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel (messenger) of light.' 2 Corinthians 11:14. To me Dennis the term 'Evangelical' describes the Moral Majority, the Christian Coalition, the Conservative Christian Right, etc. They have taken the name, but they have no good news. Ecumenical, Sunday Confederacy better describe this movement. Indeed, the SDA Church should be Evangelical and 'doing the work of an evangelist'. Somehow, it is content with a Laodicean state whose only destiny is 'I will spue thee out of my mouth.' Revelation 3:15 This of course can be avoided (while time lingers) by fully repenting the lukewarm state and returning to the first love, the Philadelphian condition. "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God" Revelation 3:12. History however shows this event unlikely. Luther did not reform his Church. Christ did not reform the Church of his day either. They silenced him as best they knew how. Regards, Gordon


Gordon,


I have no problem with the word evangelism or even evangelical for that matter, but it is how the word has become synonomous with watering down, ridiculing and misrepresenting, the message that the pioneers were given through the holy spirit. 


A professor of mine at Walla Walla College introduced me to the word by attributing it to his particular view of the type of work he has envisioned himself doing for the church throughout his life.  The only problem is that from my perspective he holds to a Desmond Ford view of SDA theology and constantly undermines everything our church has historically stood for by the pidgeon-hole method of "higher criticism" and a semi-inspired view of Ellen White's writings.  His version of religion lacks the power necessary for a changed and converted heart.  And this is what people call a faithful servant, one in whom they can trust the religious education of their tender young children to.  Very, very, distressing to say the least.


This is one way to make a church full of informed atheists.  But, Evangelical atheists.


Dennis



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Jeffery Fitzsimmons

Date:
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Dear Gordon


Sorry I took so long to get back to you, I have been busy with my children.


This is the quotation which an angel told Ellen W. about Australia in 1875, 13yrs before 1888 and about 15 to 18 yrs before Ellen visited Australia.


"Elder Whitney explained that the foreman of the pressroom was in the city on business.  {PM 34.6}  It had been a little more than ten years since Mrs. White, in relating before a large audience in the Battle Creek church what had been shown her in vision regarding the work to be done in many foreign lands, had said that she had seen printing presses running in many foreign countries, printing periodicals and tracts and books on present truth for the people of these countries. At this point in her narrative, Elder James White had interrupted her, asking if she could name some of these countries. She said she could not, because they had not been named to her, "except one; I remember the angel said Australia." 3rd Jan 1875, PM - The Publishing Ministry (1983) Chap 3, Vision and World Expansion"


...........


Something I have often thought of is that if in 1888 the General Conference had endorsed the message of Christ our Righteousness, it would have ignited the 3rd Angel's Message with a bright penetrating flame it probably would have finished that work. 


Yours in Christ


Jeffery Fitzsimmons



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Gordon

Date:
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Hello Jeffery,

Thank you for the quotation from The Publishing Ministry. However, this does not state that Ellen White was instructed by an Angel to go to Australia. The vision shows the work to be done in foreign lands and names Australia as one of them. But I do not read here any instruction for EGW to go to Australia or elsewhere. Rather, she states "I had no clear light myself." 2 Selected Messages 239

You wrote:

"Ellen White being sent to Australia was no bearing on her prophetic gift. As she was instructed by an Angel to do so, to establish the minister's college and sanitarium health facility."

Perhaps once there she was instructed regarding the college, sanitarium, etc. Very likely.

I welcome your thoughts,

Regards,

Gordon

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Jeffery Fitzsimmons

Date:
Ellen in Australia
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Dear Gordon


Thank you for your response to the quote on Ellen visiting Australia.  When Ellen was asked by "...Elder James White had interrupted her, asking if she could name some of these countries. She said she could not, because they had not been named to her, "except one; I remember the angel said Australia."  Ellen's initial response was a little vague in details, but the Angel did mention Australia; at this point it could be speculation (who knows?) what else did the Angel say to Ellen about Australia.  Is everything that Ellen was shown in visions recorded/published?


Ellen's visitation to Australia was not a waste of time, in Australia I believe we view it that Ellen was sent to 'naughty corner of the globe' her coming here added tremdous weight to the stablishment of the SDA Church here.  The property on which the sanitarium health food company was built was purchased with various visions she had about the land, apparentaly there was markings in the ground which shown to her the property to buy and was extremely cheap!  I dont have the references to back it up (have you heard of this story?)  Ellen's visitation in Australia certainly kicked off the 3rd Angel's Message coupled with the Health Message.


When I said, "Ellen White being sent to Australia was no bearing on her prophetic gift.  As she was instructed by an Angel to do so, to establish the minister's college and sanitarium health facility."  The intention was not to mislead/misuse quotations, we dont know what did the Angel instruct Ellen yet out of all the countries/places Ellen was shown it was only Australia which was brought into remembrance.


I have noticed within our churches, there had been a lot of questioning to the validity of E G Whites writings (the lesser light).  Is because some things she does say about reform it too cutting and thus is easiler to deny it?  She did say something, about her writings would dishonoured/mocked before the end.  If people studied for themselves the Bible (not just listen to the words of another man), they will find truth and The Truth will set them free.


God Bless


Jeffery



 


 


question, The quotation does not say Ellen you must go to Australia



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